I have several friends who at different times in their lives have lived under totalitarian regimes.
They have each told me separately that there is a form of collective madness that grips people because the state controlled media broadcasts utter drivel and people slowly start to believe it.
The objective of this propaganda is almost always to control the narrative, of how people perceive things that have happened.
I would imagine that the poor souls in Pyongyang would feel rather at home listening to the Big Brother output of the Scottish media in the last two months regarding the death of Rangers.
I had something of a North Korean moment this evening when I was listening to Clyde 1 Super Scoreboard.
The caller wanted hear that the history and honours of Rangers had not been lost when the original company had been liquidated.
He was not disappointed and Darrell King reassured this chap that the illustrious saga that is the mighty Rangers had not been broken.
Oh dear…
The folks that run Planet Fitba might be confused about this stuff, but UEFA is not.
The Jesuitical pirouettes of the hacks seem to be based on the fairy story that the club wasn’t liquidated, but only the company was.
So that’s all right then.
What does UEFA think of that?
http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Tech/uefaorg/General/01/80/54/10/1805410_DOWNLOAD.pdf
I found that “Chapter 2: Licence Applicant and Licence” to be a rip roaring read.
Article 12 “Definition of a licence applicant” is probably germane to what the chap calling into Clyde about.
Specifically 12.1 is well worth a read.
“A licence applicant may only be a football club, i.e. a legal entity responsible for a football team participating in national and international competitions which either:
a) Is a registered member of a UEFA member association and/or its affiliated league (hereinafter : registered member); or
b) Has a contractual relationship with a registered member (hereinafter: football company).”
I called a leading international football lawyer. The Court of Arbitration in Sport is his chap’s natural habitat.
His highly expensive skills are regularly sought by top English Premiership clubs.
If anyone would know this stuff then he would.
I didn’t want the totalitarian double speak of Planet Fitba, I wanted the truth from someone qualified in this specialised field of law.
I relayed the import of the answer on Clyde given to the caller and my confusion after reading the regulations above.
After he had stopped chortling about the phone in answer he explained the reality of the Sevco situation to me.
His response was free of legalese and subsequently worth relaying because of its clarity:
“It’s an interesting idea. The logical extension is that history is a commodity that can be bought and sold. I’ll be sure to mention that to the powers that be at Manchester city who may well be interested in purchasing Nottingham Forest’s two European cups and maybe a league title or two from Arsenal perhaps?”
He reminded me that UEFA operate under FIFA regulations and the world governing body is quite clear on this.
FIFA consider liquidation to be the death of a football club.
I checked on the UEFA website and they have Rangers last game as being against St. Johnstone on May 13th 2012
http://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/teams/club=50121/profile/index.html
Just to make sure I checked on another club that plays in Scotland.
http://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/teams/club=50050/profile/index.html
That one appears to be much more up to date, or perhaps UEFA just considers the history of Rangers FC to have been concluded in June 2012 and that the 4-0 victor in Pert on the last day of the SPL season was their last ever match.
On Planet Football there is no distinction between the legal entity and the football club, they are indivisible.
If the entity is liquidated then so is the club.
They are one in the same.
However, in the Orwellian world of Planet fitba phone ins black can by white if that is what is needed to sooth a fretting bear.
jimthetim
For anyone on this thread mad enough to believe that TRFC are not a new club, and therefor totally different from the old club, please answer the following simple questions.
Why are TRFC/Sevco/RFC tribute band playing in Div. 3?
However, before you trot out the old lazy line, ‘oh they were relegated….’, no they were not. RFC died, end of. Sevco 5088 applied to join the SPL and were voted against by the other clubs. They applied to join SFL and were accepted into Div 3, quite rightly.
Why are TRFC not allowed to play in European football?
Simple, because they need to produce 3 years of accounts, and they don’t have that because they are a NEW CLUB.
But hey Marching…., we’ll just let the fans decide eh?? Coco the clown has got nothing on you boy.
August 25, 2012 at 11:08 am
Marching on Together
jimthetim
“Why are TRFC not allowed to play in European football? Simple, because they need to produce 3 years of accounts, and they don’t have that because they are a NEW CLUB” Well if they don’t have 3 years of accounts, what are they doing in SFL3 (quite rightly as you say), as a new club requires 3 years of accounts before it can be admitted. So clearly according to the Scottish football authorities, Rangers are NOT a new club. But hey, everyone in Scottish football apart from bitter Celtic fans are wrong eh?
August 26, 2012 at 6:12 pm
jimthetim
They are a new club, that is the end of it. If they’re not, why did they change there name from SEVCO 5088 to ‘THE Rangers Football club’?
You’re in denial, but we can see how much it hurts you and we’re loving it. Deal with it, they went bust, died and came back as The Zombie Rangers. It’ll all come out in the wash, but please stop burying your head in the sand.
August 28, 2012 at 6:12 pm
Marching on Together
1) Sevco 5088 Limited is STILL called Sevco 5088 Limited. Sevco Scotland limited changed its name on 31 July 2012 to The Rangers Football Club Limited. If you can’t even get the basic facts right, then everything else you say can clearly be disregarded.
2) You are the one in denial – watching Rangers play every week, when you had hoped for their death.
3) I have no liking for Rangers – if anything my allegiance is to Celtic, but I refuse to buy into the culture of treating Rangers differently from any other club which has been in the same situation, just because of historical bigotry and hatreds. Rangers should have their titles stripped and awarded to the runners-up, if it is shown that they broke the rules in playing improperly registered players – each match given a 0-3 scoreline.
August 29, 2012 at 10:55 am
007Bhoy
An excellent summary of Celtics organisational structure Hugh Heffner, but with one trifling, yet critical, detail being omitted that led to your erroneous conclusion!!
Celtic has always been under the same, continuous, corporate structure without a liquidation & death of the club in sight. We all know about the firesale of RFC(IL) assets for a pittance to the only buyer in town, who has started a new club called The Rangers FC. Good luck to you all with your new venture & all that…… On a personal level I’d just like to say God bless Fergus McCann.
August 25, 2012 at 9:49 am
Mouldy67
OSCAR KNOX APPEAL
Hello , just to let you know that I am planning to take part in a 50 mile cycle from Glasgow to Edinburgh, 09/09/2012
During the next 2/3 weeks I plan to train very hard in order to be able to take part in this cycle where I would hope to be able raise some funds for “Wee Oscar Knox” who is 3 year old kid and is not keeping very well just now.
You can read Oscar’s story on web link below….
http://www.justgiving.com/Team-Oscar-Knox-Appeal-Cycle-09092012-Paul-Muldoon
In the meantime, all donations are welcome
August 25, 2012 at 9:42 am
kevbhoy67
PIhil, just listened to you and Paul67 from CQN at the Q&A night in the Dumbarton Harp club and i would like to thank you both for the courage you both have sbown in the way you have reported and exposed the corrupt saga that is/was rangers football club.WIthout people like you we would never have heard the truth,as the scottish media would nevef had the “balls”to print the information you both have provided On behalf of the world wide Celtic community and the rest of Scottish football,I thank you.
August 25, 2012 at 1:31 am
Phil Mac Giolla Bhain
Thanks. It was a great night-Paul and I were chatting about it later and agreed that it was a smashing crowd with some great questions being asked.
August 25, 2012 at 9:19 am
dan boy
Listening to not so super scoreboard on Thursday, Mark Guidi stated that he did not think that the titles/medals should be taken from the records if Rangers were found guilty of having second contracts – The responsibility lies with the ‘suits’ and they should be pursued. The MSM are still trying to peddle the myth that someone else done it – the bottom line is that if found guilty, all titles/cups should be erased from the records – If anyone is found guilty of fielding an illegible player (as in recent scottish cup games) then the tie is awarded to the other team – why should the rules be altered for Rangers?? Each game should be awarded to the opposing team as a 3-0 result – Question whether the Rangers should have been relegated earlier as this would have resulted in zero points being one as it appears every player was a beneficiary under this scheme !
August 25, 2012 at 1:03 am
Traynor...not that one
You appear to be very well informed Hugh. It wont have escaped your attention that none of the three companies you mention have been liquidated. Indeed,none have even been placed in administration. Therefore they have never been subject to an asset sale to a new company.Your logic is very persuasive however so lets go with the theory that “Celtic” have only won the title 5 times.I reckon we should have a star for each of those.
August 24, 2012 at 10:46 pm
weeandybhoy
2 points:
Hugh Hefner – were the changes in Celtic’s name/business structure as a direct consequence of either going into administration/going into liquidation?….were they forced to do this as a result of the millions of £’s they owed creditors?
No, thought not.
Can the same be said for rangers?
No, thought not.
Marching on together
“paid creditors & concluded the transfer of assets. Paid creditors in part, just like Rangers”?
Paid their creditors???, what, rangers??
errmmm, me thinks not. rangers have paid nobody & mr green can’t even sort out the debts owed to Scottish clubs without blaming the SFA or the SPL or anyone else he can think of at the time.
That’s one of the main issues with the whole debacle that is rangers. This mess has ALWAYS been someone else’s fault, or it’s a case of we’re being picked on, or it’s not fair, or we’ve been punished enough.
It’s no wonder the rest of Scottish football have turned their back on them (kilmarnock, airdrie & cowdenbeath excepted!!!)
August 24, 2012 at 9:59 pm
Marching on Together
weeandybhoy
1) “Marching on together “paid creditors & concluded the transfer of assets. Paid creditors in part, just like Rangers”? Paid their creditors???, what, rangers?? errmmm, me thinks not. rangers have paid nobody” Under the proposed Leeds United CVA (which never actually took place) it was initially proposed that non-football creditors got 1p in the pound. With the Rangers CVA it was undefined, but could have been as much as 8 to 9p (but probably would have been much less). With the sale of assets by oldco Leeds to newco Leeds, payment of 4p in the pound has to date been made to non-football creditors. Under liquidation, oldco Rangers will eventually make some payment, pitiful though it may be, and I understand that newco Rangers has made payment of at least some of the Scottish football debts.
The point I am making is that there is really very little difference between what happened at the two clubs following administration.
August 26, 2012 at 6:08 pm
gazthechef
Marching on together,surely the main difference between Sevco and the other British clubs who have gone bust is that they breached the rules several times,then deliberately engineered there way into liquidation to avoid paying their debts.thus,forcing already cash strapped clubs into further financial difficulties and bringing the whole sport into disrepute.surely you are the biggot if you are to blind to see this.
August 24, 2012 at 8:42 pm
Gemma
Uefa really do have a high opinion of this newco eh? What with rating them even higher than the illustrious Glasgow Celtic. Funny that.
August 24, 2012 at 7:56 pm
Pete Stack
Had a chuckle driving through Normandy in the summer, as I drove passed ‘Museum des Rangers’! And to think George W. Bush said the French had no word for entrepreneur…..
August 24, 2012 at 6:58 pm
Hugh Hefner
There are 3 main companies in this discussion:
1. Celtic plc – this company was formed in 1897 and
was previously known as “The Celtic Football And Athletic Company
Limited”. Its name changed in 1994 to Celtic plc. It was the football
club until a restructuring on 15/2/02 when “aspects of (its) trade”
were transferred to Celtic F.C Limited . It continues to own the
players (ie pays the transfer fees), Celtic Park and the 1/12 share in
the SPL.
However its accounts also states that “Celtic F.C.
Limited has the main activity of which is the operation of a
professional football club.” It admits that the football club IS
Celtic F.C Limited.
2. Celtic F.C. Limited – this company was formed in
2001 and was previously HMS (402) Ltd. as mentioned above, it is a
professional football club. It receives all the gate money, employs
and pays all the wages of the players and other staff. It receives the
TV income. It is the company that competes in Europe.
It is also insolvent to the tune of £23 million.
3. The Celtic Football And Athletic Company Limited -
This was set up in 1994 and was previously Pacific Shelf 595 Ltd. It
is not the football club despite its name. Not much goes through it.
It had £80K of turnover in 2010. It was probably set up just to
preserve and maintain the old name.
The conclusion is that the football club is Celtic F.C
Ltd, a company that was formed in 2001. It won the league in 2002,
2004 and 2006-8, although it seems that the 2002 win was done by 2
separate companies. However the Celtic fans don’t have any problem in
acknowledging that season’s league win.
I don’t understand how a company that is not the
football club can own players but I don’t know the exact regulations
and presumably they are not breaking any rules. Perhaps Whyte was
looking at a similar arrangement for Rangers and having Rangers Group
owning the players, but the club continues to pay their wages? That’s
a scary thought.
The bottom line is that the company that plays
Celtic’s games was formed in 2001 and has won the league 5 times.
“If you know your history” and all that…. “
August 24, 2012 at 5:34 pm
SamBrowneBelt
You’re a strange fellow; you obviously know far more than you understand. If I were you I’d get back to your mansion and “unwind”.
August 24, 2012 at 9:37 pm
Jim Wood
In the words of Nelson from the Simpsons. “Ha Ha!”
You Newco guys, you kill me man. I believe Carlsberg don’t do Valentines day, but if they did, they couldn’t do one for us Celtic fans as good as this years.
No European football for a new club for three years. This is not us imposing this on you guys. This is the governing body in light of your Oldco’s death. The people outwith your funny handshake clique and biased media will not allow you to play in the premier competitions for the next three years because you are new. We don’t make the rules, but in spite of all your vitriol lies and not walking away, you are new.
Keep the faith all of a Celtic mind.They can say whatever they like but they know it. They are new and all they were is diminished.
Keep at them Phil.
August 24, 2012 at 10:48 pm
Brendan
Sorry Huge…. I must have missed reference to forced administration, unpaid creditors, failure to secure a CVA, Liquidation….
A laughable attempt at whataboutery dressed as credible research but thanks for the giggle…
Now off you trot
Brendan
August 24, 2012 at 11:45 pm
redversbodkin
EXCELLENT PIECE PHIL,TIME FOR THE UNINFORMED TO WAKEY WAKEY.AND GIVE THEMSELVES A SHAKEY SHAKEY, DEFINITELY TIME 2 READ ” he who knows”
August 24, 2012 at 1:43 pm
redversbodkin
now i’m defintely gettin’ the book
August 24, 2012 at 1:44 pm
delbhoy
I see Lance Armstrong is having is title taken off him, wonder if msm is got anything to say about that.
August 24, 2012 at 6:01 am
David
To the Peter that responded to me…
I appreciate the points you make and to a degree accept them.
Just two things if I may. 1. There is no doubt some clubs have gathered far worse debts than rangers, but they are been given the enviroment to service this debt. Craig White forced liquidation…in other countries rangers level of debt, and I’m happy to call that level of debt uncontrollable, embarrassing and completely wrong, is accepted.
Secondly, why do I know support the team people now call sevco / newco etc? Because it’s the same team.
A handful of executives made horrendous decisions. I’m not even propared to spend the time on researching the similarities with Fiorentina, That’s not my game…but to me…it’s the club I grew up supporting as a young lad.
All the best….
August 24, 2012 at 1:24 am
Stevie Reid
But, Mr. Charles Green was quoted as saying “It was r angers then, it’s r angers now, it will always be r angers. ” If so, should creditors not be paid. Seems to me they are r angers now,but not then. Confused…aye !! A wee question ? If it’s still r angers..what happened to the 5 stars they used to have above their badge. I think they have gone now !!!
August 24, 2012 at 1:24 am
greenmcgeek
Stevie Reid – 1.24am
Shouldn’t Green have said “rANGERs then, the rANGERs now, always cheating”
August 24, 2012 at 10:45 am
SamBrowneBelt
A couple of years ago, England World Cup hero Nobby Stiles fell on hard times and sold some of his medals, including his World Cup medal and European Cup medal. They were bought by his former club, Manchester United for more than £200,000.
If only I’d had that kind of money … I could now go around claiming to be Nobby Stiles. Or would people think I was a bit mad …?
August 23, 2012 at 10:31 pm
macaroni
Marching on Together. You want me to “back up my point with reams of evidence”? What point ? I never made one. All I did was rip your embarrassing “the fans decide” rant to shreds. Dearie me, the fans, not the law of the land decide eh ?
And you talk of intellectual heavyweights after coming away with such garbage ?
And how dare you accuse me of bigotry ?
What did I say that was in any way, shape or form bigoted ? To me, it is obvious why you did. The bigotry comes from you.
August 23, 2012 at 10:31 pm
PaulMc
I noticed that bigotry comment too. The poster clearly is unable to discern between dislike of a new football club and an irrational hatred of others, be it based upon race, religion, culture etc., and there is a very big difference.
August 24, 2012 at 5:16 pm
Marching on Together
PaulMc
If a position put forward is based not on logic or argument, but merely rests on abuse (as with macaroni), then you do not need to be an intellectual heavyweight to work out that the absence of anything to buttress that position, leaves you with nothing other than irrational prejudice and hatred.
August 26, 2012 at 5:51 pm
Marching on Together
macaroni
“All I did was rip your embarrassing “the fans decide” rant to shreds” – all you said was “Oh Dear. What an infantile statement. Please leave this discussion to the grown-ups.” Well it may be that the MSM get off with making assertions with nothing to back it up, and expect to be taken as gospel, but that is the only place (or are you really Jim Traynor?) You ripped nothing to shreds, as you provided no evidence or arguments to back up what you assert, rather you resorted to petty juvenile abuse.
If you have no logic or argument behind your position (or at least not one you deign to share with us), then all that is left is prejudice-fuelled belief aka bigotry.
August 26, 2012 at 5:48 pm
Luke Warmwater
Middlesbrough FC went bust in the 80s. The ‘club’ is a newco formed in 1986. They claim the history of the club prior to then, so what’s the difference to them and Sevco? I can’t get a satisfactory answer to this anomaly.
August 23, 2012 at 10:31 pm
SamBrowneBelt
This is all getting tiresome…For those who think Sevco are the same as Old Rangers, answer me this: if Sevco win the Scottish Cup this season, will they be allowed to play in Europe next season?
If not, why not? They haven’t been banned, so why not?
Ah yes, of course, it’s because UEFA tell us they’re a NEW CLUB!
But why believe UEFA, when you can believe deluded fools like Marching on Together.
August 23, 2012 at 10:21 pm
Marching on Together
SamBrowneBelt
This is indeed getting tiresome.
For those who think that Rangers are dead, answer me this: if the SFL rules state that a club must have three years of accounts before a club can be admitted to the SFL, what are Sevco doing playing in SFL Div 3? Ah yes, of course, it’s because the SFL and the SFA tell us they’re the SAME CLUB! But why believe the SFA or the SFL, when you can believe deluded fools like SamBrowneBelt.
August 26, 2012 at 5:05 pm
Beeegajay
2 Ra*gers good 1 Ra*gers Bad XX WRONG XX
DEFO WRONG :S
Hang on…
1 Ra*gers bad 2 Rangers very bad XX NOPE! XX
NOT IT EITHER (close but no cigar):$
Wait wait wait
Here goes..
Any (Positive Integer) No of Ra*gers BAD – 0 Ra*gers GOOD
There’s your answer.
Book now moved from Amazon wishlist to pre-order.
Yay! (It was at No 84 when I checked this evening)
That should clear up any remaining confusion.
August 23, 2012 at 9:09 pm
droid
are you watchin this at home?
http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=1966/index.html
August 23, 2012 at 8:02 pm
Andycol
Marching on together, if you are indeed a Leeds Utd supporter, you seem to be shaky on your own club’s history.
Leeds United AFC Ltd went into administration on 4 May 2007 and on the same day were sold to a new company Leeds United Football Club Ltd subject to a Creditors Voluntary Arrangement (CVA) being agreed. Both Leeds United AFC Ltd and Leeds United FC Ltd were controlled by Ken Bates.
On 1 June 2007,a vote returned 75.02% of creditors accepting the CVA offer (75.20% after a recount). The CVA proposal was therefore carried, unlike Rangers FC.
Leeds United AFC Ltd’s administrators achieved the necessary 75% support for a CVA.They also withstood a court challenge from HMRC, paid creditors and concluded the transfer of assets, including League share, to Leeds United FC Ltd, according to the terms of the CVA before winding up the old company. Administration was exited in an orderly fashion.
What similarities to the Rangers FC scenario are there other than the entrance to Administration?
August 23, 2012 at 4:36 pm
Marching on Together
Andycol
1) “The CVA proposal was therefore carried, unlike Rangers FC” The CVA was never carried out, due to HMRC exercising their statutory right of challenge, and blocking it, due to them arguing (probably correctly) that one of the parties forming the 75.2% (Yorkshire Radio) was a connected party, whose debt should therefore not be taken into consideration. So the question of whether the CVA was approved by more than 75% has never been resolved. What is clear is that the CVA NEVER took place, due to HMRC’s objection. Just like Rangers.
2) “They also withstood a court challenge from HMRC” No they didn’t. After the failure of the CVA, the administrators sold the assets to newco Leeds (just like Rangers), and on the eve of the court hearing HMRC withdrew their challenge as it was now irrelevant as there was no CVA to proceed with.
3) “paid creditors and concluded the transfer of assets” Paid creditors in part, just like Rangers. Concluded the transfer of assets, just like D&P to Sevco.
4) “Administration was exited in an orderly fashion” Yes, to liquidation on 15 Feb 2008. Just like what will happen to Rangers. Or are you denying that Rangers oldco will ever go into liquidation?
5) “What similarities to the Rangers FC scenario are there other than the entrance to Administration?” A more pertinent question is, what material differences to the Rangers FC scenario are there?
August 23, 2012 at 9:48 pm
joe
If they exited administration “in an orderly fashion” then why did the football league impose a 15 point penalty?
HMRC were not defeated in a court challenge. They simply changed their minds and withdrew opposition.
Anywayabout the Liquidation of the original Leeds a couple of years previously? Any thoughts?
I know you want have any on Fiorentina…that goes without saying. (Or Sunderland for that matter)
August 23, 2012 at 9:57 pm
Marching on Together
Joe
1) “exited administration ‘in an orderly fashion’” were Andycol’s words, not mine. I merely quoted him. The Football Leawgue imposed a 15 point penalty on a contractual basis as a condition of Leeds newco having the golden share transferred to it from Leeds oldco.
2) HMRC “changed their minds and withdrew opposition” – as it was now irrelevant as there was no CVA to object to, there was no point with proceeding with the court challenge. If there had been a CVA, then HMRC would have continued with their court challenge.
August 26, 2012 at 4:59 pm
joe
Why are Dundee’s fixtures listed:
http://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/teams/club=53033/domestic/matches/index.html
including results up to the weekend
Whilst Dunfermline’s fixtures are only listed till last May?
http://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/teams/club=53034/profile/index.html
Did I miss Dunfermline going out of business?
August 23, 2012 at 3:38 pm
droid
Is the hearsay about a BIG Fenian conspiracy based upon this document?
http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Tech/uefaorg/General/01/74/41/25/1744125_DOWNLOAD.pdf
Lovely photo on the front cover.
August 23, 2012 at 8:47 pm
Phil Mac Giolla Bhain
Love the avatar ;0)
August 24, 2012 at 8:42 am
joe
A question I asked in the middle will no doubt be lost.
Thought it worthwhile to ask this at the top.
If Rangers are no more…why did the SFA not take over “ownership” of the players registrations?
That is the rules when a club is no longer a member is it not?
August 23, 2012 at 3:34 pm
williamofO2
The comparison to the Hitler film ‘Downfall’ is an interesting. if only the German pro Nazis in Brazil had realised they only had to tell each other they still occupied Poland , France, ect they could still claim their pre 1945 position in Europe even as Berlin was in post war ruins and the Nazi party captured or dead. ‘we say its so, so it must be so’ was the magic words and all they had to say to reclaim the desired point in history. ‘Vater,sagen Sie mir,was Sie im Krieg gemacht ?’
August 23, 2012 at 3:09 pm
Iain
Seems UEFA need to update their co-efficent table…..
The late Rangers are ranked 50th in Europe, 13 places above Celtic. How can this be?
August 23, 2012 at 2:24 pm
wastrel
one of the above comments has to the best (and most accurate funnily enough) quips I`ve seen or heard about sevco 5088,
-trigger syndrome! 17 new heads & 14 new handles but it`s still the same broom!! I dearly hope the green brigade make a flag about that, that would be hysterical!
August 23, 2012 at 2:04 pm
jen75pen
Phil,
I too thought the same as you when I checked out the links, but now I think that you may have misinterpreted the UEFA website. Although all the premier league teams are there, Dunfermline recently relegated aren’t and Dundee recently promoted are. therefore the end of rangers in May is possibly due to the fact that they are now in SFL3 rather than SPL. Women’s teams at the highest level are represented but t men’s teams at any level below the top level.
August 23, 2012 at 1:01 pm
John
I always thought,in the journalistic world,that when you include a direct quote from someone they are actually named to give the quote some substance and to avoid accusations that the quote has just been made up and that no such conversation with a ‘top lawyer’ actually took place but maybe thats just me.
It may also have been an idea to advise your readers that UEFA only update profiles of Clubs in top tiers so the fact that Rangers page has not been updated does not imply any view of UEFA on this. I’m certain you would not want to create a false impression.
You may also wish to inform UEFA of your views on Article 12 because they don’t appear to agree. Fiorentina suffered a bankruptcy event in 2002 and are listed as having been formed in 1926 with all honours won throughout the Club’s existence.
August 23, 2012 at 12:51 pm
HonestBoab
@Phil Mac,
Any idea when the FTT decision on the EBT Case is due Phil?
Seems to be taking forever considering the initial estimate was 6-9 weeks?
August 23, 2012 at 12:46 pm
gazthechef
just a hunch but id say the bigwigs in nyon are waiting oon the outcome of the BDO investigation.after which they may or may not hit the silly switch.either way the whole pantomime amongst the MSM and their denial is the most damning thing to come out of it.it shows what a biggoted wee hole scotland really is and how those in power;bankers,lawyers SFA top brass and the sir davids of this world are seemingly untouchable.its like a south american dictatorship,instead of a cartel we have SEVCO!deary me.roll on Downfall.shine a light on it Phil.
August 23, 2012 at 12:39 pm
QuadBhoy
I was told by someone I have no reason to doubt that “the SFA are clear on Airdrie United, they are a continuation of Clydebank”
AFAIK Airdrieonians were liquidated then a New Company, Airdre Utd, bought and re-named Clydebank F.C.
The achievements attached to the membership registered with Airdrie F.C. appear to still include those of Clydebank F.C. from its registration with the SFA (1965) as well as any achievements since renaming as Aridrie United.
Assuming that the purchase/transfer of the registration that belonged to Clydebank F.C. to Airdrie Utd. is equivalent to the Rangers F.C. / The Rangers F.C. transfer then this appears to suggest that The Rangers F.C. can lay claim to the past achievements of Rangers F.C. as they are seen by the football authorities as attached to the registration that was transferred to a new company as shown by this previous example. It should also mean they are liable for any football penalties (undeclared contracts for football activities), even if company law saws they cannot be held liable for the old PLC financial liabilities.
Perhaps Airdrie Utd. still own the previous company (Clydebank F.C.) and it is for this reason and not the ownership of Clydebanks’ SFA registration that entitles them to this history? If this were the case The Rangers F.C. could not claim the history.
Ref:
http://www.scottishfootballleague.com/club/airdrie-united/
The main points of interest from that page:
Founded: 1965
(This relates to Clyebank/East Stirlingshite merging in 1964/65 – presumably at this point the two clubs registrations were terminated and a new registration was created)
Club Honours
Formerly Clydebank
League Champions: Second Division 1975/76, 2003/04
SFL Challenge Cup: 2008/09 (ALBA Challenge Cup)
Anyone complaining to the SFL regarding the listing of Rangers F.C. achievements under The Rangers F.C. should perhaps ask for The Rangers F.C. to have achievements of Rangers F.C. listed under a similar heading, Foremerly Rangers F.C.
QB
August 23, 2012 at 12:15 pm
Frankier
Phil, I may be getting a bit slow on the uptake now but could you explain more fully your reference to Opus Dei and your reasons for making it?
August 23, 2012 at 11:43 am
Frankier
David, maybe removing debt would be more important.
August 23, 2012 at 11:17 am
S Keenan
Phil, Rangers are dead but I don’t think there’s a need to overplay the lack of stats on the UEFA site as they only record results of teams in the top divisions of each memebr country.
August 23, 2012 at 11:16 am
paul
Why are Sevco allowed to be called Rangers, play at ibrox, have stars on their jerseys ,be allowed to sign players and still behave with a we are the peeple mentality ,still sing their sectarian songs and still have all the powers that be jumping to their tune still seems to me that Rangers have,nt gone away
August 23, 2012 at 11:11 am
John Anthony
Will you have copies of your book with you for purchase tomorrow night at the Q&A session at the Harp?
August 23, 2012 at 11:05 am
tony d
The oldco fans keep saying they are happy where they are at the moment and so am I they are DEAD, SEVCO are a new club no history they are in the fourth tear of Scottish football and they are a team to be watched as very soon they are going to be backed by 3 BILLIONAIRS, thats what Charlie (roll up get yer season tickets)Green told Jim White..cough!cough!
August 23, 2012 at 11:04 am
Frankier
So sevco/newco/Tesco, whoever, became “the most successful club in the world” before even kicking a ball or paying their debts. How sad can these people get? If r”ngers as a club has never died, then why is there any need for a sevco/newco/Tesco/weirdo/dodo? And why doesn’t the chairman of other clubs, Celtic included, do the same as them and cheat and steal and thieve and do all kinds of roguery and then carry on as if nothing had happened? That means that they would never ever need to worry about debt of any kind.
August 23, 2012 at 10:56 am
yogibhoy
hi phil ,
“downfall” is also the title of the endlessly satirised hitler movie of youtube fame . i’ve a feeling your book will give as much pleasure as those famous clips have .
hail,hail .
August 23, 2012 at 10:51 am
Colin Taylor
How funny.
And if you search the UEFA website for teams beginning with ‘R’, Rangers are a women’s team. http://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/index.html
August 23, 2012 at 10:43 am
Jim Young
•”If the Party could thrust its hand into the past and say this or that even, it never happened-that, surely, was more terrifying than mere torture and death.And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed-if all records told the same tale-then the lie passed into history and became truth.”
George Orwell, 1984
August 23, 2012 at 10:38 am
Greenjedi
One more point.
Football players must be payed by their Football Club and not any other holding companies. Now if Sevco, the media and their fans are all insisting that the holding company was responsible for all financial deals since the early 1890s when the club incorporated, surely EVERY game played in the last 130 odd years must be declared void due to the biggest breech of the rules in Sporting History? I mean it makes cheating for 12 years look like nothing at all!
August 23, 2012 at 10:09 am
Worried Tim
I’m getting a bit worried. Do you think Charles Green might try and buy our European Cup from 1967?
Perhaps Scotland should wade in with an offer for England’s world cup trophy from 1966 – ach naw we don’t need that cos we beat them right afterwards lol
August 23, 2012 at 10:01 am
HonestBoab
The best cure for worry is comfort food Tim,
May I suggest some Hartley’s Lime Jelly & Häagen-Dazs® Vanilla Ice Cream…….
Just sayin
HH
August 23, 2012 at 12:44 pm
whale oil beef hooked
Phil, do you think that Celtic fans owe the MSM a debt of gratitude? Perhaps there should be an award or some kind of official recognition from the supporters to thank the hacks?Steadfastly refusing to be an extension of the Celtic PR dept helped ensure that the fans are largely capable of thinking for themselves.
Unlike followers of the latest Dear Leader by the looks of it.
August 23, 2012 at 9:47 am
HonestBoab
Whale Oil you still trolling the DR website or were you along with SolidStool one of the first to go missing when the team formerely known as Rangers* were liqidated?
*Denotes Tainted
140 years no Big Cup
Fail Fail
August 23, 2012 at 12:34 pm
whale oil beef hooked
HonestBoab I think you’ve misunderstood my sarcasm
August 24, 2012 at 11:22 am
BRUCE BROCKETT
I HAVE FOUND AN ANSWER TO ALL THE CONFUSION.
IT IS KNOWN AS “TRIGGER SYNDROME” , REMEMBER ONLY FOOLS AND HORSES. TRIGGERS BROOM ???
THEY ALL SUFFER FROM THIS, POOR SOULS MAY THERE CLUB REST IN PEACE OR ROT IN HELL FOR ALL I CARE.
August 23, 2012 at 8:46 am
HonestBoab
Interesting stuff Phil but as you know the deluded will always remain deluded?
Brainwashed by generations of hate filled forefathers they truly believe they “arra peepelz” the “most successful fitba’ club in ra wurruld”?
Rangers Fc are dead,gone,deceased..a dead parrot.
Megalomania killed them and the biggest Megalomaniac of them all walked away without a care in the world.
The Debt,EBT’s,Dual Contracts and History are all still there sat in an office waiting to be consigned to the big shredder in the sky.HMRC BDO and The Courst have the finger on the ON switch.
End of story.
Fail Fail
August 23, 2012 at 8:31 am
Antonious F
I am going to ask Real Madrid if i can buy one of their European cups, sure they have loads. i’m sure they wont miss ine.
August 23, 2012 at 8:19 am
MB
UEFA? Charles Flint QC for starters
August 23, 2012 at 7:59 am
macaroni
Re : The “Marching on together” comment.
“The fans decide” if a club has died or not. Oh dear. What an infantile statement. Please leave this discussion to the grown ups.
August 23, 2012 at 7:35 am
neillennon
so if every Celtic fan worldwide claims we’ve won 10 champions leagues then according to king we have. also airdrie utd bought clydebank in administration not their share in the sfl. then the airdrie utd company sold clydebanks assetts to the clydebank fans group. so airdrie utd are clydebank only with a name change and relocation of stadium
August 23, 2012 at 9:31 am
Marching on Together
Macaroni
Good to know that an intellectual heavyweight is on the case, citing reams of evidence to back up his point. Never mind that you are content to ignore what has actually happened with other clubs in the UK going into liquidation, and having their history continue and being recognised as such by the football authorities, lets just make Rangers a special case, based on nothing more than your bigotry, eh?
August 23, 2012 at 10:06 am
industrialdan
in the uefa rankings you can;t click on ragers! why?
August 23, 2012 at 1:20 pm
262 KubN
One would think these “people” would want to ditch much of their history. Think of Manchester recently and so many other similar incidents in their past. Many remember a pitch invasion following a triumph in Europe as an emotional and happy celebration, others a similar invasion as a hate filled WATP attack. Many Hun posts still cite this as a proud part of “their” history; they are welcome to it. No one (save the powers that be in Scottish fitba’ and the Scottish MSM) likes them, they don’t care. No one likes their successors but they might like to explain why. It’s still part of their history and “proud tradition”. Don’t let them simply say “it wisnae Us”. They still have a history of certain victories. They still have a history they should be ashamed of and a future of which they will be. The British Empire is no more. The British imperial mentality lives on; nowhere more so than at the Big Hoose in Govan (WATP). They can cling to their history until they are history. GTF and RIP, Bears.
August 23, 2012 at 7:30 am
jonny
If they are still ragers then why were they not deducted 10 pts for still being in administration .
August 23, 2012 at 7:06 am
Peter
A very VERY good point. They were supposed to be deducted 10 points at the start of this season if they were still in administration, which they are. But this all depends on them being the same club as last season. Which they’re not.
They only play in the same stadium. As I said before, if the fans want to see it as a continuation, that’s up to them, but they should be aware that the club they now support has a history stretching only as far back as May 2012.
August 23, 2012 at 10:12 am
joe
Two questions.
Is a ten point deduction a mandatory penalty in the SFL? Remember we are no longer dealing with the SPL. Maybe you could provide the link stating that
Also: If Rangers are no more…why didn’t the SFA take all their players? That is the rule I believe if a club is no longer a member.
August 23, 2012 at 3:23 pm
Paul Cochrane
If, as Darryl and many Govanites propound, Rangers have an unbroken and unbowed history: why are they in the 3rd division?
They weren’t relegated.
They were not punished by demotion.
The only penalty applied last season was a 10 point automatic deduction.
A new company had to apply to the SPL and was rejected. A new company had to apply to the SFL for exceptional entry to the 1st division and this was rejected. The new company then applied, as per normal, to enter the league at the appropriate stage and this was accepted.
It’s not about history or bragging rights, it’s about the truth. I heard Darryl last night and he kept repeating, ‘the holding company was liquidated, you can’t liquidate a football club!’ Patronising caller after caller and chanting his new mantra, defying defiance. It was pretty embarrassing.
August 23, 2012 at 6:34 am
SamBrowneBelt
Perfect.
August 23, 2012 at 10:13 pm
The Wallace
When I finished reading your latest piece and had a wee think about the msm, the final scene of the classic cowboy film ‘The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance,’ came into my mind. When confronted with the truth that Jimmy Stewart’s character did not kill Liberty Valance, played by Lee Marvin, the editor of the local Daily Rangers replies,” This is the West sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.”
I am also waiting for air brushed (I believe it is photo-shopped now) photographs with certain characters moved into or out of the scenery, a la Stalinist Russia.
August 23, 2012 at 4:51 am
Marching on Together
This was wishful thinking when you first published the results of your discussions with your contact in UEFA several weeks ago, and remains exactly that. It is not UEFA or the SFA or any other body who decides whether a club continues, or where the history goes, but the fans. If the fans of oldco Rangers have decided that Sevco Scotland are still Rangers, Sevco having bought the Rangers brand, history, trophies, and goodwill, then that is good enough for me.
BTW, my own club, which according to theories put forward by you, your contact in UEFA, and your lawyer pal, went defunct in Feb 2008 when the company which owned the club previously went into liquidation, is listed on the UEFA web-site as very much having had a pre-2008 history, including various UEFA honours: http://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/teams/club=53361/profile/index.html
August 23, 2012 at 1:48 am
Greenjedi
Ah, The Great Leed United Lie.
Leeds United HAVE NEVER BEEN LIQUIDATED!!!
Granted they came very very close, but not close enough!
August 23, 2012 at 10:02 am
Marching on Together
Greenjedi
Aye, and Celtic have never won a European trophy.
The Leeds United Association Football Club, incorporated on 2 October 1920, company number 00170600, went into liquidation on 15 February 2008. Companies House: http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/55781e58241827f87f68bad9fa2a8784/insolvency
This was the company which owned the club Leeds United, and which sold its assets out of administration in July 2007.
Just like Rangers.
We continue with our history intact, as do Rangers if the fans want it. Methinks the deluded masses labouring under totalitarian groupthink are wearing green and white, not blue.
August 23, 2012 at 11:42 am
joe
And then we have the very unfortunate example of Fiorentina
http://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/teams/club=52817/profile/index.html
August 23, 2012 at 11:37 am
P J Fox
That’s the spirit. Keep trying to delude yourself. Looking forward to you trying to convince UEFA that Sevco arent a new football club regardless of what rights they have bought from Rangers.
Have Sevco applied to Company House yet for the name change? Looking forward to that too.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18509619
August 23, 2012 at 11:45 am
Marching on Together
PJ Fox
That’s the spirit. Keep trying to delude yourself. Looking forward to you trying to convince the SFA and the SFL that Rangers haven’t continued in existence regardless of the fact that a team called Rangers is playing at Ibrox in Rangers colours with Rangers players and staff and Rangers’ trophy room and history.
August 23, 2012 at 2:54 pm
joe
Leeds United Football Club Limited (company number 05334247) were indeed liquidated. That company went into compulsary liquidation on March the 6th 2006.
I suspect it is the Newco “The Leeds United Association Football Club Limited” which you claim was never liquidated.
What did happen in that case interestingly was that after HMRC blocked a CVA allowing that company to exit administration, was the Football League agreed to transfer the “golden share” from “The Leeds United Association Football Club Limited ” to “Leeds United 2007 Ltd.”
In doing so they imposed a 15 point penalty. There was no outpouring of rage from fans of other clubs, and there was no further punishments or fines.
Subsequently HMRC withdrew it’s opposition to a CVA and the sale of the club to Leeds United 2007 Ltd. was halted and liquidation of The Leeds United Association Football Club Limited was no longer required.
So we can see.
Leeds were liquidate once before.
They were about to be liquidated again, and the Football League, opposing clubs and fans were fairly comfortable with it. All that stopped it happening was a change of heart by HMRC.
You can read a wee bit about the original liquidation here:
http://www.mercerhole.co.uk/blog/article/phoenix-companies-leeds-united-did-ken-bates-break-the-law
August 23, 2012 at 12:07 pm
stevec74
i had a rather interesting convo today with a Sevco supporter regarding whether or not the 5 stars should be on the strip above the crest… he agreed not… and actually expects the SFA / SPL to order that they be removed… enlightened ? i placated him by saying they could be argued to be nothing more than a design feature…
August 23, 2012 at 1:38 am
emile
Actually Rangers are not shown after May because that was their last SPL game and the UEFA website only shows the top league in each country. No way to know from the website if UEFA thinks “The Rangers Football Club” in Division 3 is the same club.
August 23, 2012 at 1:25 am
Michael McDonald
Phil I would strongly urge you to seek total and utter clarification from the (dis) respective governing bodies of Scottish football. Surely Stewart Regan or Neil Doncaster should be legally forced to confirm “If the 2012/2013 Ramsdens Cup heads to Ibrox, it will be the first trophy in THE Rangers’s history” or something along those lines. If they were to state differently, FIFA must be brought into it. It’s very annoying that both sides don’t know the truth and it should be clarified by now. Do your best Phil. The realisation, both legal and football, that Rangers have official died along with their history, is what I would describe as the final nail in the coffin of the most bigoted and corrupt football institution that all of us have ever witnessed. The five stars above the crest issue will be crucial to this also…
August 23, 2012 at 1:23 am
David
Interesting points Peter. I very much agree this topic will be ‘a points scoring’ bit if banter between the fans.
I also agree that clubs should not be allowed to run up horrendous debts and there are several ‘live’ examples in Europe where clubs are in a far worse position than rangers ever got into yet plough on. I find the Swiss ramble blog very interesting on these points.
Rangers fans though have self determination though. They are the bridge between these two holding companies. They stop the timeline being broken. Legal and if you want moral arguments can be heralded but when rangers next win the spl title, whenever that may be it, it will not be the clubs first title in my opinion, the fans opinion, and so the point scoring on this topic will rumble on for as long as rangers and Celtic play in the same country!
August 23, 2012 at 1:10 am
Peter
In response to David:
I am sure there are many examples of clubs in Europe where debt is far higher than Rangers’ debt was – but you can not say they are in a worse position, for they are trying to service that debt – pay it back whilst Rangers FC are heading for liquidation because it chose not to.
That is why it is important to draw a distinction between fantasy and reality. Why should one club (Rangers) just wipe away its debt yet have the audacity to stand shoulder to shoulder with other clubs who are trying to clear their debt?
The very reason all the other clubs are trying to service their debts is because they know, their respective national authorities know and UEFA knows, that liquidation means the end.
Only the spin & propaganda of the Scottish football authorities and media could make liquidation sound like it is nothing more than a paper shuffling exercise at boardroom level – I think that is the point of Phil’s article here.
“Rangers fans are the bridge between these two holding companies”
Do you know what a holding company is? You can’t just say things that sound good in the hope it catches on and becomes fact – there “were” no holding companies, there “are” no holding companies.
It’s bad enough to believe that lie – it’s worse when you promote it and that is exactly what Charles Green is doing via his propaganda and the same can be said for the Scottish media.
I’m afraid the timeline is broken – to believe otherwise is to facilitate a scam where a club can liquidate its debt yet survive.
Now imagine we all started copying that model …
August 23, 2012 at 6:54 am
Peter
Isn’t it strange how the “holding company” was called Rangers, and the club was called… Rangers. They’re the same thing, the club stopped being a club in the late 19th century (1899?) and became a private limited company. The fans might see it as a continuation (that’s up to them) but Rangers and The Rangers are two very separate entities. Sevco 5088 Ltd (as they were known then) only bought the assets and business of Rangers PLC, they did not buy, COULD not buy anything else (as history can’t be bought, it’s only earned).
August 23, 2012 at 10:04 am
Peter
By the way, this message and the previous one are from a different Peter than the first reply to David!
August 23, 2012 at 10:04 am
Worried Tim
David
There is no holding company for Rangers
They were incorporated then became Ltd then became a PLC. That as part of normal business processes to initially protect players and staff from being personally liable for clubs debts etc which then led eventually to the PLC to provide shares flotation. The name of the club changed but there is no holding company.
As mentioned earlier in this blog and replies, the club is always the club and when the club goes into liquidation that is the end of the club.
Simples
August 23, 2012 at 10:18 am
Steve
Dear oh dear! Opinion is it?
Ok, then, after a marriage divorce – a legal arrangement – it is only a matter of opinion is it whether or not someone considers themselves to be unmarried or not?
Imagine it.
August 23, 2012 at 11:25 am
P J Fox
Peter
Sevco are still very much Sevco. They havent applied to Company House yet for a name change to The Rangers and cant do so until the Rangers FC have been liquidated.
Even then it’s unlikely Company House will approve the name change.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18509619
August 23, 2012 at 11:55 am
Marching on Together
PJ Fox
http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/8b0a4572adf326e72bce3117aa9c2791/compdetails
Sevco Scotland Limited changed its name to The Rangers Football Club Limited on 31 July 2012, and that has been registered at Companies House.
Just like the MSM round here – a complete lack of research.
August 23, 2012 at 2:59 pm
Astrobhoy
This is great, but how then can the SFL have Rangers listed on the official site with honours, titles, formation club crest etc as if nothing ever happened?!! Can there be a conflict of interest here between UEFA and the SFL?!!! What is the official line of the SFL and if it is in favour of this history being carried forward – when will it be corrected by UEFA?
Simply cannot be allowed to happen.
August 23, 2012 at 12:30 am
jjbhoy
dear phil,only a few hours ago me an my m8 were discussing this and he was outraged that sevco fans still spout this drivel as do our sports”journalists”.once again on reading your blog,i read the truth and subsequently joined uefa.com and left a comment to the effect of,tax evasion,financial doping,dual contracts campbell ogilvie as sevco secretary and as sfa secretary and a negligence of duty and commented on your blog,dont know if it will make a blind bit of difference but as one of the tims said earlier,the silience from uefa-fifa is deafening.thank you once again for your sterling work and good luck with your book which i will purchase on payday.
August 23, 2012 at 12:20 am
Al
if nothing changes in the mean-time, lets say this saga runs on and on for a fair amount of years, and who knows, maybe one day Newco will finally get back into european competition, i wonder what both the UEFA and FIFA websites will say then.
even the MSM in scotland could not argue their thinking, but no doubt they will try.
August 23, 2012 at 12:04 am
Martin
Airdrie Utd exist because they purchased Clydebank’s share in the league. Sevco did the same with Rangers.
Airdrie Utd did not inherit Clydebank’s previous honours or carry on the timeline of Airdrieonians.
Should they win the pawn shop cup that will be their first ever trophy and that is when this debate will be settled once and for all.
August 22, 2012 at 11:54 pm
Worried Tim
Martin
Regarding Airdire, I think you’ll find that Clydebank were purchased legally and then they moved grounds etc to Airdrie and they renamed themselves Airdire Utd.
Clydebank did not get liquidated. The Rangers / Airdrie comparison is way of the mark
Sorry !
August 23, 2012 at 10:14 am
michael mccahill
Brilliant Phil, I was listening tonight as well and I was cringing when I heard king, he said “I believe that is the case” and say if you look at the SFL div3 web site u will see the history is still there. What a joke, how stupid are these peepil. The wee guy that copied and pasted the history from the deceased rfc web site must be so proud. Why did King say he believes that to be the case? Is he too lazy to go find the FACTS! Do us all a favour Phil give this clown King a wee call urself and give him some tips on how to be a real journalist. Thanks again Phil.
August 22, 2012 at 11:48 pm
Mark McAuley
Further proof. Rangers women are listed on Uefa site as are all the clubs under the letter R. Oddly no sign of Newco/Sevco.
http://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/index.html
August 22, 2012 at 11:32 pm
Phil Mac Giolla Bhain
Perhaps the web person is in Opus Dei?
#WebOfCorruption
August 22, 2012 at 11:38 pm
Mark McAuley
Someone should call up wee Daryl. Send him the Uefa website link & ask him to then explain it again on Radio Clyde, hopefully saying how sorry he is for the confusion to all the listeners & that Uefa dont recognise Newco/sevco. If he replies with the usual ” Well, the SFA said this, that ” he should be reminded that Uefa trumph SFA in these matters.
August 22, 2012 at 11:24 pm
David
Can I ask why removing history seems so important to some?
August 22, 2012 at 11:22 pm
Peter
In response to David:
I don’t think you are looking at this the correct way. This issue is not about stripping away any history. The point in all of this is that The Rangers, founded in May of this year, don’t have any history.
Why is that important? From a football point of view, it’s all about bragging rights I suppose.
From a moral point view, no club should ever be allowed to get into so much debt that they can’t pay it back, then simply liquidate but then pretend it was just the “corporate shell” or a “holding company” that liquidated but the club remains unscathed.
When you get so reckless – like David Murray has done over so many years, there has to be a price – you can’t just wipe away debt and pretend it never existed.
If we allow this, then that gives way for every club that is in debt (probably the other 99% of clubs) to go and do likewise.
So, it’s not about taking history away; far from it. Rangers FC won 54 titles and no-one can take them away. Well, apart from Lord Nimmo with a dual contracts investigation, but that’s another story.
The point is – “The Rangers” don’t have any claim to any trophy and the more the MSM in Scotland facilitate this lie, the more discredited they become. If that can be possible.
August 23, 2012 at 12:02 am
Carntyne
Rangers and then Sevco, and now The Rangers are part and parcel of the newspaper industry’s bread and butter and those who have access to the chairman or manager feel they wield a little power.
Take away that comfort blanket an they need to find stories on their own.
So the tabloid hacks will never willingly admit that The Rangers are not Rangers.
They will insist just like The Rangers deluded fans that they are one and the same.
If the two conract issue goes against Rangers as is expected, expect a whole new attack on the SFA,SPL, but mainly Celtic fans, who in colusion with Peter Lawwell are responsible for Rangers having their titles removed.
August 22, 2012 at 11:22 pm
Damo Lennon
Someone better tell the Scottisj Football League this – they list Rangers’ historical honours as having been won by their Third Division team, The Rangers FC.
August 22, 2012 at 11:20 pm
Kevin Martin
This is what it must be like to talk to the panel,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npjOSLCR2hE&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Maybe from now on Sevco should be known as Norwegian Blue.
Keep up the good fight Phil, Hail Hail.
August 22, 2012 at 11:18 pm
declan
Back to what you do best.i look forward to title stripping day
August 22, 2012 at 11:16 pm
Laurie M
Fans with typewriters Phil(no even electric ones!)……still holding on to the final rapidly fading moonbeams.
New question – when are the “old” MSM going to die?
p.s. 5 months clean now – never buy another tabloid/broadsheet.
August 22, 2012 at 11:14 pm
joe burt
Now that fans are not buying msm products its time to stop tuning into phone ins-clyde .real radio etc leave these to the ostriches who believe the non sense being peddled .In the search for truth and transparency we should look no further than your good self Phil,Paul Mc the RTC etc where truthful factual reporting can be expected and guaranteed.
Keep it going Phil,when will Downfall be available on Kindle.
August 23, 2012 at 7:17 am
Phil Mac Giolla Bhain
Downfall will be released on Kindle before the end of the year
August 23, 2012 at 7:33 am
De Profundis
How will the media in GB and Ireland be persuaded to stop using the name Rangers? Do you sincerely believe that someone in the UEFA is going to tell them to stop it? Do you think that anyone in the UEFA really care?
August 22, 2012 at 11:14 pm
Rab
Does this now mean I could go to Cash Converters and buy the Battle of Bannockburn?
August 22, 2012 at 11:05 pm
steven doyle
The panel on Clyde are petrified ..man up ,and do some research.Daryll pretended to be privy to rfc,sevco,sfa situation then backed up his “in the know” stance with “mmm i think i read it in the papers! haha .
August 22, 2012 at 11:05 pm
marc
Where are they though phil? The silence of uefa and fifa on this matter is deafening!
August 22, 2012 at 11:03 pm
jonniebhoy
same old same old from the msm here,and yet my jaw still drops listenin to the propaganda spouted by those supposedly in the know.facts are freely available and not more than a few clicks away but yet the msm will not go into the realms of “bampots”.
August 22, 2012 at 11:02 pm
Humble Pie
Hi Phil,
I know that, you know that, UEFA and FIFA know that, however the fans of Sevco don’t want to know that. They do not support a club, they support a trademark.
August 22, 2012 at 10:56 pm
Una@No1Ghirl
“Ding Dong The Witch is dead”…and so say all of us
August 22, 2012 at 10:54 pm