I find it amusing that the adherents of a self-styled bastion of Scottish Protestantism have now apparently turned to Buddhism.
Suddenly the Bears believe in reincarnation.
I spoke with a leading sports lawyer about the legal status of Sevco Scotland Limited.
This chap is not connected to the Glasgow fitba struggle and he was quite clear that Sevco Scotland Limited and Rangers football club are two entirely different entities.
He stated to me as an assertion that the team that took to the field of play in Brechin last week end was not Rangers.
By way of explanation he added “if I bought Brad Pitt’s house and wore Brad Pitt’s clothes I wouldn’t be Brad Pitt!”
If I can augment his excellent analogy even if Brad Pitt’s fans adored my legal chum as he left the Hollywood mansion then he still wouldn’t be Brad Pitt!
I don’t really want to get into a fight about the new club, but the rules on the sports desks seem to be clear.
The first rule about Sevco is that you do not talk about Sevco!
Given that the same hacks meekly reported that Craig Whyte was a billionaire then I don’t think that the people who run the club that dare not speak its name will have any trouble from the succulent lamb crew.
The wheel of life turns on Planet Fitba, but the Ibrox klan have not evolved.
At Glebe Park chants about “fenian bastards” were clearly audible throughout the match.
The Scottish Football League does not have match delegates to report such illegal behaviour.
I expect that the SFL will start to come under scrutiny about what they are going to do about the behaviour of Sevco fans as the season progresses.
However, I am confident that the intrepid denizens of Scottish sports journalism will not cut the new club any slack on this bigoted chanting.
The SPL’s independent commission into the use by Rangers (1872-2012) of Employee Benefit Trusts and the allegation that this led to players being improperly registered has been established.
This shouldn’t really concern Sevco Scotland Limited as they weren’t born when these crimes against sporting integrity were allegedly committed.
If Rangers are found guilty post mortem and titles are stripped from the first decade of the millennium then for the green half of the city it will be like a religious experience.
The Tims will be in raptures while the Bears are about to experience another dose of karma.
SamBrowneBelt
Marching…
Do not presume to know the company I keep. Your tone is becoming a little aggressive, so maybe you should calm down a little.
Your grasp of English is lacking awee bit (I can try to help you, but my time is precious). Obviously, the CVA had to be in place – from the same source “Bates’s buy-back plans receiving creditor approval” – before it was deemed in-valid. KPMG then immediately offered the Club for sale again, and the bid from Bates was again accepted. It then goes on to say the league membership was “handed back to the club” – the one you say was liquidated and didn’t exist.
Here’s another wee cut-and-paste job for you, from Wikipedia (note the phrase “COULD have resulted in the liquidation of the club):
“The CVA was due to end on 3 July 2007, which would have allowed Bates to regain full control of the club. However HM Revenue & Customs challenged the CVA, a decision which could ultimately have resulted in the liquidation of the club.[23] Under league rules, if the club were still in administration at the start of the next season, Leeds would have been prevented from starting their campaign by the Football League.[24][25] Following the challenge by HMRC, the club was put up for sale by KPMG,[26] and once again Ken Bates’ bid was accepted.[27] The league eventually sanctioned this under the “exceptional circumstances rule” but imposed a 15 point deduction due to the club not following football league rules on clubs entering administration.[28] On 31 August 2007 HMRC decided not to pursue their legal challenge any further.[29]”
But hey, maybe you’re right and everyone else is wrong? Can’t quite make my mind up on that one …
Not really sure why you’re taking such an interest in matters up here anyway, but you’re more than welcome to keep reading – there’s a lot for you to learn.
August 7, 2012 at 6:44 pm
Marching on Together
Whatever. You don’t even understand what you are posting. You are as deluded as the cheating bigots who follow Rangers.
August 7, 2012 at 9:40 pm
SamBrowneBelt
Marching on Together
None so blind as those that will not see.
But do keep coming back, and keep posting.
August 8, 2012 at 6:45 pm
aldobhoy67
Have the new club masquerading as rangers been granted permission to use oldco s logo/badge and colours by the sfa, spl or the liquidators.
August 5, 2012 at 10:18 pm
Stevie Reid
Marching on together. R angers are not yet liquidated, soon will be made official though. So, they are no more..dead as the dodo. Or do you proclaim to have seen a dodo in the yorkshire dales, it’s not really deid !! R angers are soon to be officially liquidated, leeds were never liquidated. Therein, lies the differance. Why can’t you see that differance ?Beats me, why you want to argue until you are blue in the face ( pun intended) that the defunct r angers and leeds are so alike, and their predicaments are one and the same. Whatever !! Brothers united by the sound of things. Carry on..marching on, doh !!
August 5, 2012 at 12:39 am
Marching on Together
“leeds were never liquidated” That has as much truth in it as me asserting that Celtic are the team followed by cheating Protestant bigots in Scotland.
For the umpteenth time on this site, in the probably vain hope that someone might actually read it, and in the even vainer hope that someone might understand it, The Leeds United Association Football Club Limited (Company Number 00170600), incorporated on 2 October 1920, and which was the company which owned Leeds United FC before it and all its assets was sold to Leeds newco in July 2007, went into voluntary creditors liquidation on 15 February 2008.
As RFC 2012 plc (oldco Rangers) will no doubt go into liquidation at some indeterminate point in the future. Therein, lies the complete lack of difference.
Try checking Companies House before you start pontificating (pun intended) about stuff you are clearly ignorant of.
August 5, 2012 at 2:18 am
Ben mcginlay
Amen to that, I’ve been reading marching on keeping everyone right for the last few days. I think most people would like to see the back of him. What’s it like to be always correct. I’m all for free speech but there is nothing worse than trying to get through to someone so adamant.
August 5, 2012 at 10:54 am
k
I’m Brad pitt, will the real Brad pitt please stand up!!!
August 4, 2012 at 7:45 pm
GAZTHECHEF
good shout Ian N.been saying for years thgat the mindset at matches is fundamentally diferrent from our bluenose bretheren.we sing songs of love for Celtic and Ireland,they sing songs of hate for us.I was brought up in Scotland but now live in Ireland,and its only when youre on the outside looking in that you realize what a dirty wee goldfish bowl it really is.clean up the media and you will clean up the game.wanyama to score first celtic to win 3-0!mon the hoops!!!
August 4, 2012 at 10:22 am
John Reid
Marching, you seem to have a good grasp on these things due to your team, Leeds, having gone through an insolvency event. What I can’t get my head round is every other Leeds fan I have spoke to is very passionate about pointing out the differences between what happened to them & what is happening to oldco! I certainly have no issue with them being called rangers or having the same strip, but it is not the same club and no amount of msm sfa pandering to their traditional support will change that fact! If the authorities told u nostrodamus was alive and well and he had 50000 fans saying the same would u then accept that he had risen from the grave? As Phil said earlier, if the magic wee bunnet hadn’t stepped in when he did, not only would Celtic fans not claim the history, we would be vocal in telling anyone who tried how wrong they were! I think it’s one of those points that differentiate Celtic fans! We would be proud of the EC & 9 in a row & we would cherish those memories but we, I believe, would start again and try to match those accomplishments! Anyway, Phil another great read, any chance of mr ogilvie doing the decent thing anytime soon? Hail Hail
August 4, 2012 at 5:31 am
Marching on Together
John Reid
There are certainly some differences in the detail, but the essentials are effectively the same. Administration after megalomanicac owners overspent and then ended up stiffing everyone, failed CVA, sale of assets to newco, transfer of share by football authorities, ultimate liquidation of oldco, HMRC not at all happy.
The main difference between Leeds and Rangers is that everyone hates Rangers and wants them gone due to their cheating, while everyone loves Leeds, their clean attractive sportsmanlike style of play, and they are always welcome in any town where they play.
Of course other Leeds fans want to differentiate themselves from the cheating Rangers, who wouldn’t. Because of the similarities, I posted on a different site on the day Rangers went into administration, that there would never be a CVA for Rangers, but there would have to be an asset sale and liquidation.
“not only would Celtic fans not claim the history, we would be vocal in telling anyone who tried how wrong they were” I don’t believe that for a minute. I have been to dozens of Celtic games at Celtic Park and abroad, have many Celtic supporting mates, and don not believe that the reaction of most Celtic fans would have been any different from that of most Rangers fans, or indeed that of the fans of the countless of other clubs in the UK who have undergone similar insolvency reconstruction, and whose club survives.
August 4, 2012 at 1:29 pm
redversbodkin
SURELY THE POWERS THAT BE @ CELTIC PARK must now seriously consider leavin’ SCOTTISH FITBA’ FUR GOOD IT’S THE ONLY ALTERNATIVE
August 4, 2012 at 2:42 am
Ralf
I’ve heard all this talk about title stripping, what actually happens ? obviously you cant play the games again, having listened to former players Billy Dodds and Andy Walker, they think its ludicrous, it was 11 against 11, Andy Walker said the standard of football was better, it made him a better player.
August 4, 2012 at 1:24 am
Ben mcginlay
Aye very good Ralf. I don’t care what ex players or managers say. Break the rules, lose your titles, then you get punished. No exceptions
August 4, 2012 at 11:37 pm
James Quigley
Doesn’t make logical sense
August 4, 2012 at 12:27 am
SamBrowneBelt
Marching on Together – you should get the facts straight on your own club, before you start trying to tell us black is white.
The old Rangers is in the process of dying – we simply await the formality of the switching off of the ventilator.
Because of its death, it is able to ‘Walk Away’ from over £100m in debts.
Mr Green has not bought Rangers – he has bought the assets of a dying club.
A New club is in the process of formation – note the word New, therein lies the clue.
Anyone who still doesn’t grasp it should check with UEFA; they’ll be more than happy to confirm that the old Rangers is no more.
Incidentally, the New club’s ‘Newness’ is why the New club will not be allowed to play in Europe. It’s not a ban, not a punishment, it’s simply that it isn’t eligible, as it needs to be at least three years old before it’s allowed to play in UEFA competitions. It’s a NEW club.
As I said, Mr Green has bought the assets of a dying club. If I buy the house and car of a dead neighbour, I don’t assume his identity; I don’t keep him alive; his funeral will still take place…
What Is The Problem? (that’s WITP, not WATP – that’s dead too).
P.S. I still haven’t forgiven your team for losing to DeadCo in the early 1990s!
August 3, 2012 at 11:53 pm
Marching on Together
SamBrowneBelt
Pray tell what facts I have got wrong on my own club, Leeds Utd. it is posters on here who are consistently wrong, and it is tiresome having to correct them.
“Mr Green has not bought Rangers – he has bought the assets of a dying club” He bought the brand, the name, the history, the trophies, and the goodwill of Rangers i.e the club. Say what you want about UEFA , and try to call black white all you want, but the fact is that in football in the UK, it is the fans who decide if it is a continuing club or not, and Rangers continues.
August 4, 2012 at 9:25 am
SamBrowneBelt
Marching on together – quite simply, Leeds were not liquidated; Rangers (1872 – 2012) were.
August 4, 2012 at 12:22 pm
Marching on Together
SamBrowneBelt
I find it quite amusing that you state two so-called facts, and both are completely wrong. Leeds Utd oldco were liquidated in Feb 2008. Rangers oldco have not yet been liquidated. Try checking Companies House before posting again
To quote you, try getting your facts right before telling us that black is white.
August 4, 2012 at 7:24 pm
Andybhoy
aww, isn’t that not cute,,,bought rangers,history,trophies and all the good things BUT (and that’s a big but) says no thanks to any debt,,wow,,how great is that,,,fool,,,
Ps,, I just bought a house and I told the old owner that your sons karate medals are now my medals as I clearly won them as I have bought his big hose.
August 5, 2012 at 6:36 am
SamBrowneBelt
Rambling on Regardless
Fine, I’ll give you that Old Rangers have not yet been liquidated … yet, and I’m more than happy to wait.
But you really should know more about your own club. Try this:
Leeds United AFC Ltd entered administration in the control of KPMG Restructuring on 4 May 2007 and on the same day were sold to a new company Leeds United Football Club Ltd subject to a Creditors Voluntary Arrangement (CVA) being agreed. Both Leeds United AFC Ltd and Leeds United FC Ltd were controlled by Ken Bates.
A CVA requires 75% of creditors (by value) to vote to accept a reduced percentage of the money they are owed. The company was forced to act as HMRC, who were owed in excess of £6m, had issued a winding up petition which was due to expire on 25 June 2007.
Before creditors voted on the CVA several other bidders came forward with offers for the club, however, the vote, on 1 June 2007, returned 75.02% of creditors accepting the CVA offer (75.20% after a recount).
Creditors can challenge a CVA within 28 days of the vote. On the 28th day, 3 July 2007, HMRC challenged. With the CVA subject to a challenge, KPMG asked for further offers for the company to be submitted by 9 July 2007. Despite the extended offer period, the administrators still accepted the offer from Ken Bates Leeds United FC Ltd.
With a CVA agreed, subject to challenge, the Football League transferred Leeds United AFC’s league share to Leeds United FC Ltd under its “exceptional circumstances” provision. The League imposed a 15 point penalty on the club for the 2007-08 season for failing to satisfy the outstanding legal challenge in time, necessitating the ‘exceptional circumstances’ rule.
HMRC withdrew their objection to the CVA the following month. Leeds United subsequently appealed against their 15 point penalty citing a CVA had been agreed and that the league programme does not allow time for spurious challenges to be dealt with. The Football League refused the appeal.
Believing Football League procedures were at fault, not their own behaviour, Leeds United served the League with a High Court writ to challenge the points deduction, however, both parties agreed to abide by the findings of an arbitration panel hearing.
The arbitration panel found against Leeds United citing the following two reasons:
A director of Leeds United FC signed an earlier agreement not to commence any proceedings against the League.
Leeds United waited 7 months before commencing the action, which brought unnecessary sporting consequences on other promotion chasing clubs, specifically Doncaster Rovers, who would no longer be in an automatic promotion spot if Leeds’ 15 points were restored.
In summary:
Leeds United AFC Ltd’s administrators achieved the necessary 75% support for a CVA.
They withstood the challenge from HMRC, paid creditors and concluded the transfer of assets, including League share, to Leeds United FC Ltd, according to the terms of the CVA before winding up the old company. No loose ends were left.
This is not a Liquidator’s Charter. Provisions in football only exist to transfer a League share from one company to another if creditors are satisfied, either by being paid in full or, as with Leeds United, with 75% agreeing to accept a diminished amount.
Now, go away and try to absorb this, then come back and learn some more.
August 5, 2012 at 10:36 pm
Marching on Together
SamBrowneBelt
The problem about you cutting and pasting stuff you are not familiar with is you don’t understand what you have missed out.
1) The CVA might have been agreed, but the challenge from HMRC meant that it NEVER EVER took place.
2) The 15 point penalty was not “for failing to satisfy the outstanding legal challenge in time” but for failing to exit administration via a CVA.
3) “HMRC withdrew their objection to the CVA the following month” They with drew their objection after all the assets of the club had been sold to newco Leeds, so there was nothing left for them to object to. There was no CVA left for them to maintain their objection to.
4) As you point out they “concluded the transfer of assets, including League share, to Leeds United FC Ltd” i.e. same as Rangers oldco to newco asset sale of the club.
5) as you point out “before winding up the old company” i.e. the company was liquidated, something which you have painfully been trying to deny.
6) it was never determined as to whether 75% of Leeds oldco creditors had agreed to accept a CVA, as HMRC’s challenge was initially premised on the basis that at least one of the creditors was a connected party (Yorkshire Radio) and they should not have had a vote. Without that vote, less than 75% of creditors voted for a CVA.
Good effort, but no cigar. You have posted at length and demonstrated in your post that I have been right all along.
August 6, 2012 at 1:18 am
SamBrowneBelt
Marching …
Getting bored now, but I refer you to the Leeds United official website, and the review of the 2000s by Don Warters and Paul Dews. There was no liquidation – end of story.
August 6, 2012 at 6:35 pm
Marching on Together
You are not as bored as I am by someone who knows little about my club, but is pretending to be the big I am.
From the source you cite: “the Inland Revenue lodged an objection with the court rendering the CVA invalid” and “without a valid CVA in place”. Oops, you were insisting a while ago that there was a CVA.
You say: “There was no liquidation”. You clearly are unable to locate Companies House’s web-site without assistance, but if you ask a grown-up nicely, they will show you how to find it, and you will find on that web-site details of the voluntary creditors liquidation of The Leeds United Association Football Club Limited, on 15 February 2008. All of which details I posted on this thread two days ago.
If you even bother responding, without having checked Companies House, then you are more deluded than a die-hard Rangers fan who still claims that Craig Whyte was the saviour, that there was no cheating with EBTs, that there is an anti-Protestant bias and bigotry in Scottish football, and that Celtic control the SFA. That is the company you seem to keep.
August 7, 2012 at 1:08 am
big al
i dont believe leeds utd were actually liquidated they were in administration and had a cva refused by hmrc. but ken bates bought them over before they went into liquidation and the FA granted permision on the takeover
August 3, 2012 at 11:16 pm
Marching on Together
big al
Leeds Utd oldco were liquidated in Feb 2008. Bates (or more accurately off-shore trusts with whom Bates claims he had no connection) bought the assets, not the oldco in July 2007. It was the Football League who granted the transfer of the share, under conditions. The FA was only involved in the final appeal stage.
August 4, 2012 at 9:20 am
weeandybhoy
Matt M – totally agree sir. If there were more rangers/the rangers/newco/sevco supporters with the same attitude as yourself, I think this current debacle would have moved on alot further than it has just now. Just have to tell your CEO & manager this too!!
Your point about the media is a good one. Whilst they ALL continue to use the name ‘rangers’, it makes it difficult to get away from that. I think ALL the media is suffering from this, not just the scottish msm & it doesn’t help the present situation.
Marching on together – I can’t comment on the Leeds situation too much, apart from repeating what I’ve learned from your previously articles on this site & other blogs (namely Paul McConville).
However the Wimbledon situation I think is different.
The directors wanted to move the club to different area in order to increase the size of the support they were getting & eventually upped sticks, moved to Milton Keynes & became MK Dons. Alot of the Wimbledon support were unhappy with this & set up the new club, AFC Wimbldeon. The club now in league 2, having worked their way up through the lower leagues.
This though wasn’t as a result of administration or liquidation, it was a business/financial decision.
Points to note:
Leeds & MK Dons did not drop 3 leagues & have to actually request to be voted back into their football association.
Leeds & MK Dons did not lose a huge amount of their senior playing staff as a result of contracts with the previous club becoming null & void, due to liquidation (Quote Steven Whittaker – “there is no allegiance or loyalty to this new club” a quote reiterated by Steven Naismith).
Leeds & MK Dons did not lose their ‘share’ & therefore the right to play in the top league in their country.
Let their be NO doubt.
This IS a NEW club.
If they want to call themselves rangers…fine
If they want to wear the same kit & have the same badge…fine
If they want to keep the idiotic stars…fine.
If they want to sing the same moronic songs…fine
It’s all just materialistic. There will be a day VERY soon when the oldco/rangers fc dies, become no more, cannot add to their history. That day WILL be soon.
p.s
If you want to use a similar recent example relating to oldco/newco try Darlington. 2012 went into administration. Could not secure a CVA. Went into liquidation. Dropped 4, yes 4 leagues. Have been told they can reform, but have to use a different name……..sound familiar!!!
August 3, 2012 at 10:45 pm
Marching on Together
weeandybhoy
“A lot of the Wimbledon support were unhappy with this & set up the new club, AFC Wimbldeon.” Which club is recognised as the owner of the history of the old club and a continuation of the old club. http://www.afcwimbledon.co.uk/honours.php?Psection_id=4&Psub_section_id=7&squad= They joined the South London League in 1894-95 and won the FA Cup in 1987-88.
“Leeds & MK Dons did not lose a huge amount of their senior playing staff as a result of contracts with the previous club becoming null & void, due to liquidation” The Leeds players all chose to transfer across to newco Leeds as a TUPE transfer. The Rangers players did not, cos they were greedy b*stards who do do walking away. The situation was thr same, the choices the players made were different, that is all.
August 4, 2012 at 9:17 am
gazthechef
Sevco are only wearing the old strips because they canny afford new ones,singing the same songs because they don’t have the frontal live capacity to invent new ones,and are still travelling to Ibrox because that’s where the sat nav in their swollen bellies takes them each week.the judgement against them is in the post.
August 3, 2012 at 10:21 pm
ScotPatsFan
@ Marching On Re LeedsUtd
The CVA was due to end on 3 July 2007, which would have allowed Bates to regain full control of the club.
However, HM Revenue & Customs challenged the CVA, a decision which could ultimately have resulted in the liquidation of the club.
Under league rules, if the club were still in administration at the start of the next season, Leeds would have been prevented from starting their campaign by the Football League.
Following the challenge by HMRC, the club was put up for sale by KPMG,and once again Ken Bates’ bid was accepted.
The league eventually sanctioned this under the “exceptional circumstances rule” but imposed a 15 point deduction due to the club not following football league rules on clubs entering administration.On 31 August 2007 HMRC decided not to pursue their legal challenge any further.
LeedsUtd were never liquidated, oldRFC was.
SPF
August 3, 2012 at 9:42 pm
Marching on Together
ScotPatsFan
Nearly right. (1) The 15 point penalty was imposed on the club for not following Football League rules on clubs EXITING, not entering administration.
(2) Leeds oldco was placed in administration on 15th Feb 2008. Company number 00170600 if you want to check.
(3) Rangers (or RFC 2012 plc as they now are) has not yet been placed in liquidation
(4) Interesting you use the phrase “the club was put up for sale by KPMG”. Others on here seem vehement about their opinion that there is no such thing as the club, separate from its owners.
August 4, 2012 at 12:33 am
ScotPatsFan
The ‘club’ or the ‘company’, it makes no difference what is used. When a club becomes incorporated, oldRFC in 1899, they two entities are combined.
When oldRFC eventually dies, so will the club.
You can call your new club whatever you want, play in whatever colour you like and play at any venue you wish, you’ll still be a brand new club.
In short, WE WON!
LoL!
August 4, 2012 at 4:07 am
Marching on Together
“When oldRFC eventually dies, so will the club” Except that the club has been sold to Sevco, and it continues on, as was demonstrated last Sunday. The eventual liquidation of RFC 2012 plc will have no bearing on what happens to the club that is Rangers. The eventual liquidation of oldco Leeds United had no bearing on the existence or otherwise of the club that is Leeds United.
You won? Won what, exactly, other than possibly the titles Celtic where cheated out of? Have your ice cream and jelly party, stick your head in the sand, and rage against the injustice of it all, but you and those bleating about it like you cannot deny the fact that in British football, the club continues, and Rangers continue, and will continue through their next insolvency event later this year.
August 4, 2012 at 1:19 pm
Steveo
Marching…. Yes HMRC objected & it went to court & HMRC eventually lost their objection & the CVA was agreed by 75.2% of the creditors – yes this was after a newco came in but crucially Leeds were never liquidated. This was exactly what Miller & then Green were proposing before HMRC sunk ye!!
August 3, 2012 at 9:02 pm
Marching on Together
“HMRC eventually lost their objection” No, they withdrew it on the eve of the court hearing.
“yes this was after a newco came in” No, the newco came in after the CVA vote, and after HMRC objected.
“crucially Leeds were never liquidated” No, oldco Leeds were liquidated early in 2008.
So congratulations, you barely got anything right about my club. What happened to Leeds – administration, abortive CVA that did not proceed, asset sale to newco form oldco, liquidation for oldco – is EXACTLY what is happening to Rangers.
August 4, 2012 at 12:22 am
Jim Wood
Fellow Celts fear not.
When they go to bed at night, their wee tummies will be churning at the thought that their old team is dead. They are hurting, they are mourning and they are desperate for any crumb of comfort. But, they know it. The taxman knows it, all football authorities, all legal opinion, even Mr Green and all the Sleekit Sally team-mates who spoke post Liquidation know it. All this bluster is to try and sell tickets nothing more.
They are diminished as a new club, their history is there but it now gains cobwebs. It, like mountains erodes, as we march on after 125 years of glory.53,000 at the game last night no bad eh!
It hurts them. It hurts them a lot. We just have to keep laughing to a maximum and enjoy it all.
Great post as usual Phil. Keep at them.
August 3, 2012 at 8:24 pm
Joseph
Couldn’t have put it better. Spot on.
August 3, 2012 at 9:19 pm
Mark
It’s pretty simple as to whether Sevco are a new club or a continuation of Rangers.
Look at the football authorities and how they view them. Sevco had to apply for old Rangers share in the SPL and for their SFA membership. If they were the same club they wouldn’t have to do this….Ergo they are a NEW club!
UEFA also share this view as Sevco are not allowed to compete in any UEFA run competition for 3 years. This is a rule that applies to any NEW club!
The reason Chuck Green doesn’t make any waves about this is because he knows if he challenges any of the football authorities he will lose and that will make it official for oldco Rangers fans. His best option is not to address this (Which he hasn’t) and hope oldco Rangers fans are so desperate for a team to support they’ll adopt his newco and pretend everything is alright in the “big hoose”!
We all know it’s not!
August 3, 2012 at 5:59 pm
Paolo
@Marching On….. I firmly believe that I am a sex god, doesn’t make it a fact though.
I don’t think anyone is disputing there is a link between the two clubs ie assets being bought from the liquidated club and used by the new one. But saying that it is the same club is wrong and blinkered as is grouping AFC Wimbledon alongside Leeds (two totally different scenarios)
August 3, 2012 at 5:21 pm
Marching on Together
If the fans say that it is the same club, and the football authorities say it is the same club, it is the same club. Good luck with that sex god thing.
August 4, 2012 at 12:15 am
SReilly
As much as we’d love to see queues outside tattoo removal shops the badge and stars are staying on Sevco fans. No-one can make them remove the 5 stars as there is no official usage rules on adding little shapes. It is completely meaningless and if challenged can be claimed it is just ‘flourish’ the same as Celtic currently have the ill advised celtic (small ‘c’) barbed wire on the 125 years of unbroken history crest on the home kit.
August 3, 2012 at 4:50 pm
wastrel
sorry to tell you all guys (& dolls) but it looks as if the orks are gonna walk away unscathed here, I was shocked to see the strips sevco wore last week and as one hack said, ALL sides SFA/SPL/SFL Sevco have used oldco and newco whenever it suited! I`m just praying the inquiry does it’s job and see`s it through to the sripping of titles, it`ll be no easy task to turn the pro protestant tide in Scotland y`know. and just WHO is gonna tell them they can`t use the name rangers and to take the logo off the shirts and stars off the shorts?
August 3, 2012 at 4:44 pm
The Wallace
I was told that Green got permission and registered ‘them’ last friday 27/07/12 as The Rangers Football Club Ltd at Register House Edinburgh, but do not know if this is true.
Also there may be conflict of interest query with director or board member of BDO and the bluenoses, again do not know how to find out if this is true. Hopefully someone more adept at this internet malarkey will be able to look into this.
If they keep up the standard they set last week they may not get as far or as fast as they want,
Hail, Hail.
August 3, 2012 at 4:35 pm
Kenny McCaffrey
Good to have you back Phil – and on song.
Know anything about the liquidators coming in yet?
August 3, 2012 at 4:33 pm
Ryan O'Neill
Another good comparison Phil is the Elvis one.
His fans still flock to Vegas to see a guy in Elvis clothes with an Elvis hairdo. The band are still there and so are the adoring crowds. But are they seeing the real Elvis? Of course not.
Anyone going to Ibrox this season will be going to see a Rangers tribute act. Nice.
August 3, 2012 at 4:30 pm
Steveo
Marchin on Together:- Leeds may well be your club however they agreed a CVA with their creditors and as such are still the same old Leeds Utd.
If my ma had balls she’d be ma da but she doesna and isna!! Fergus turned up on time along with some others and saved our club all debts paid as & when required despite what BOS were proposing with no guarantee he or Celtic would be succesful.
Despite Rangers(IA) so called world wide fan base no one with Rangers in their heart was prepared to save them, I wonder why?
Also Sevco can have Rangers in the new name bu THE Rangers FC will not suffice. It will require to be THE Rangers 1972 FC or similar it needs to be obvious it is a new club and the addition of the word THE will not be enough on its own.
August 3, 2012 at 3:58 pm
Marching on Together
Steveo
“they agreed a CVA with their creditors and as such are still the same old Leeds Utd” Utter rubbish. While the CVA was agreed, the HMRC objected, and it never took place. Instead the assets of oldco Leeds were sold to newco Leeds, and oldco Leeds were liquidated. Sound familiar?
The Leeds Utd that exists now is the same club as existed pre-2007, and that is exactly the same with Rangers. No amount of wishful thinking by you or others can change that.
August 3, 2012 at 7:41 pm
tom dolan
That Karma is a beautiful thing is it not?
August 3, 2012 at 3:51 pm
Antonious F
To quote Mr Pitt himself – ‘You must lose everything in order to gain anything’. Prophetic really
August 3, 2012 at 3:46 pm
iant929
Another great article Phil, I commend you.
August 3, 2012 at 3:32 pm
Martybhoy
Ffs
August 3, 2012 at 3:31 pm
Martybhoy
What an incompetent lot the BBC are,ey?
On SFL3 fixtures they have Rainjurs listed for the opening fixture but The Rainjurs FC thereafter.
FFS it is embarrassing when our diddy little country has an even diddier media.
August 3, 2012 at 3:29 pm
keighley bhoy
To the leeds fan, your a Muppet or a writer for the Scottish MSM, just because the deluded sevco fans THINK there still watching and supporting old rankers doesn’t mean they are, history books and corporate law will tell you and anybody else that they’re dead, deal with facts u clown not fiction, support a real team with real unbroken history CELTIC. hail hail, GOD BLESS IE CELTIC+
August 3, 2012 at 3:26 pm
Marching on Together
keighley bhoy
I might be a muppet, but I have nothing to do with the MSM, and have held them in contempt for decades, not months.
If the sum total of your argument is abuse, then good luck with you supporting a team with an unbroken history – that would be Rangers, wouldn’t it? After all they are the moronic fans who hurl abuse at those who disagree with them.
August 3, 2012 at 7:38 pm
Matt M
Rangers Then , Rangers Now , Rangers Forever sky sports website = rangers , BBC Sport = Rangers , All National newspapers = rangers , All radio stations = Rangers i have not heard anyone or seen any league table without using the names rangers apart from briefly when we were club 12 for a few weeks , yes rangers have been in the wrong for a few years they deserve to be stripped of there titles yes they have an element of support that even myself bein a rangers fan would happily not associate with my mates are celtic fans we all get the banter the way it should be everyone will have an opinion on what they think , my opinion is i grew up a rangers fan not bigoted i got brung be a rangers fan and a massive scotland fan yes 1873 rangers is dead but i will support the rangers football club 2012 as the same and let just get on with the football now bhoys and hopefully in a few seasons if we can get promoted haha we can get the banter again and hopefully in the next 3 years the bad element of my support can drift away.
August 3, 2012 at 3:16 pm
Joseph
Well said Mr Matt. That took courage.
August 3, 2012 at 10:37 pm
redversbodkin
All Celtic Supporters & other Scottish fitba’ fans want is justice, strip the the honours won during the cheating years,& suspend or terminate their membership in the S F A, for the big tax case ,then go after a public enquiry into the past 25 years since BIG DODGY DAVIE took over, i’m sure that there are & must BE traces of shady deals involving the S.F.L. let’s have everything out in the open scottish football will remain in the garbage until this materialises, personally i would not xross the street to watch an SPL GAME OF ANY DESCRIPTION,as it is just as phony as the W. W .F.
August 3, 2012 at 3:08 pm
franco
4 sevco fans have been arrested in aberdeen..lanarkshire & ayrshire for secterian breach of the peace at the brechin game…re radio clyde news.
August 3, 2012 at 3:07 pm
greenallover
Great piece Phil.I find it utterly incredible that this new club,The Rangers football Club,Are allowed to even use the name rangers without an addendum like Utd or Rovers.Liquidation rules are clear on the trading too closely of the original vehicle.Green himself admitted the history was lost if liquidation occurred.Yet here we are with this zombie team playing in blue,using the same badge and still using those ridiculous stars.Even worse is the fact that despite shafting hundreds of creditors,they are now paying SEVEN THOUSAND per week to players in the third division!Hopefully BDO will end this farce in due course as something stinks here.Regarding the press,not one word on the sectarian chanting,or insulting banners at the Brechin game.Are we surprised? Hardly,it’s what we expected.
August 3, 2012 at 3:06 pm
mick
great read phil we all know its sevco and not rangers ,any1 that thinks diffrently has a delutional disorder
Delusional disorder is an uncommon psychiatric condition in which patients present with circumscribed symptoms of non-bizarre delusions, but with the absence of prominent hallucinations and no thought disorder, mood disorder, or significant flattening of affect.[1] For the diagnosis to be made, auditory and visual hallucinations cannot be prominent, though olfactory or tactile hallucinations related to the content of the delusion may be present.[2]
To be diagnosed with delusional disorder, the delusion or delusions cannot be due to the effects of a drug, medication, or general medical condition, and delusional disorder cannot be diagnosed in an individual previously diagnosed with schizophrenia. A person with delusional disorder may be high functioning in daily life as this disorder bears no relation to one’s IQ[3], and may not exhibit odd or bizarre behavior aside from these delusions. According to German psychiatrist, Emil Kraepelin, patients with Delusional Disorder, remain coherent, sensible and reasonable[4]. The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) defines six subtypes of the disorder characterized as erotomanic (believes that someone is in love with him/her), grandiose (believes that he/she is the greatest, strongest, fastest, richest, and/or most intelligent person ever), jealous (believes that the love partner is cheating on him/her), persecutory (believes that someone is following him/her to do some harm in some way), somatic (believes that he/she has a disease or medical condition), and mixed, i.e., having features of more than one subtype.[2] Delusions also occur as symptoms of many other mental disorders, especially the other psychotic disorders.
The DSM-IV, and psychologists, generally agree that personal beliefs should be evaluated with great respect to complexity of cultural and religious differences since some cultures have widely accepted beliefs that may be considered delusional in other cultures
there mentally ill and need a doctor every last 1 of them a blame jabba trynor and co and minty
August 3, 2012 at 2:54 pm
mick
Awesome
August 3, 2012 at 2:37 pm
shaun
the media are doing what they did to the previous regime suck right there arses. but who cares WE KNOW THE TRUTH they will always be sevco to me and am not slow telling the zombies that love when they get all raged up.
August 3, 2012 at 2:35 pm
Kevin Gallagher
On Helicopter Sunday in 2005 when Rangers won the league against Hibs, all starting 11 players, plus their 7 subs and the Manager had EBTs.
That is financial doping on an industrial scale.
August 3, 2012 at 2:30 pm
vinny wallace
fact .rangers were not demoted,newco were wrongly allowed entry to div 3 wow see what i did there, i made two out of one,pea and ham from a chicken, thats amazing.
August 3, 2012 at 11:18 pm
@BigDelBhoy
Another top notch blog Phil. As Shania Twain said ‘So your Brad Pitt,that don’t impress me much.’
August 3, 2012 at 2:30 pm
Marching on Together
“the team that took to the field of play in Brechin last week end was not Rangers.”
You can assert that all you like, but that does not make it true. The legal entity owning Rangers is no longer the same, but the actual practice and tradition of football in the UK, is that it is the same club, even following an insolvency event and the sale of all the assets to a different entity.
That is what has happened to clubs across the UK, including my own, Leeds Utd, and even including AFC Wimbledon, who are recognised by the football authorities and most importantly the fans as being the continuation of Wimbledon FC.
I posted at length on this previously, but you did not respond. If the Rangers fans think that the team they are watching on the park at Ibrox is Rangers, then sorry, that is Rangers. The rules of the SFA and SPL, referring to club, agree with me.
If Fergus McCann had turned up an hour later at Celtic Park and had bought the Celtic assets from the receivers, would you now be claiming that the 1967 European Cup win, 9 in a row, and Jock Stein was nothing to do with current day Celtic, and was a completely different club? Thought not.
And no, I have no liking for Rangers.
August 3, 2012 at 2:28 pm
Phil Mac Giolla Bhain
Do not suppose to know my thoughts.
If Celtic had been liquidated in 1994 then NO it would not be the same club today.
It was a damn close run thing, but Celtic survived and Rangers did not.
August 3, 2012 at 2:33 pm
Marching on Together
Easy to say that now in the context of an argument about Rangers, but I bet that most Celtic fans at the time would not have been so pure-minded as you.
As for Rangers not surviving, I saw them on TV on Sunday, proof I think that they did survive.
August 3, 2012 at 2:43 pm
Ben mcginlay
CELTIC survived Ranjurs did not. This is fact. Oh by the way, are you and masonwalker connected in some way. Seems to be a theme here, masonwalker and marching on together. That’s a lot of marching and walking going on. Reminds me of something…..
August 3, 2012 at 3:49 pm
Robertg
To the anaolgy, just because it looked like Frankenstein’s Monster, was dressed the same and had the same pitchfolk toting mob following with had the same jaunty repartee and members, does not make it the monster himself. (Apologies to the purists out there – I know the mob was against poor old Frankie, rather than in support, but it was convenient).
To the point about having a different view on it if it happened to Celtic, you are darn right, but the fact is that it didn’t. I think it is also reasonable to assume that were the boot on the other foot, what is happening to Sevco / Rangers (IL / RIP) would have been played out a hundred fold, with the active support of the MSM at the time.
August 3, 2012 at 4:29 pm
Althetim
Marching on Together – Rangers, the original Rangers, will soon be deceased. What we saw on Sunday has yet to be conclusively established, but it certainly wasn’t Rangers.
The Rangers Football Club Ltd
Company No. SC425159
Status: Active
Date of Incorporation: 29/05/2012
are alive and pretending to be Rangers
RFC 2012 PLC
Company No. SC004276
Status: In Administration
Date of Incorporation: 27/05/1899
are soon to be liquidated and ARE Rangers
They are not the same old friend, there is no such thing as a “Football Entity”
August 3, 2012 at 8:16 pm
Marching on Together
“They are not the same old friend, there is no such thing as a “Football Entity”"
Well the fans and the football authorities disagree with you. But hey, what do they matter?
August 4, 2012 at 12:17 am
Ben mcginlay
Well said Phil, I just wish our press would make clear that it is a new club, but they won’t, they have an agenda. It makes me sad even after all their wrongdoing they are still being mothered by the MSM in Scotland. They have certainly confirmed to everyone what they are all about.No negative press, no probing questions, ignoring facts, positive spin on every new scandal that comes to light, still calling them by their old name and the dreaded o#d f##m tag, even trying to balance the books by giving Celtic and their people negative press. I personally don’t/won’t buy ANY tabloid paper as they are all as guilty as each other. At least the Celtic family know exactly where we stand. The evidence is there, even for so called neutrals. Paranoid. No way
August 3, 2012 at 2:27 pm
Mat
never a better time to deal with the undesirables, every time they bring out the ‘song book’ dock points from them, Green will fill his trousers if this happens and it will bring the dog whistlers to heel.
August 3, 2012 at 2:19 pm
Brenda
Brilliantly put
August 3, 2012 at 2:17 pm
Gary
obviously green has a product to try and sell to generate income but surely the law is clear that any club that is liquidated cannot have its name / crest used by any other club. the word ‘rangers’ cannot be used in any way. i think BDO began the liquidation process on July31st. as far as the 5 stars they are still trying to use with the branding its a total joke as there is no history.
August 3, 2012 at 2:13 pm
redversbodkin
well said phil,let’s hope that sevco,rangers,newco or whatever they call themselves,get a wee visit from FIFA & OR UEFA, REGARDING THIS QUAGMIRE, I hope that they lose all the TITLES,& CUPS WITH RESPECT TO THE CHEATING YEARS, i would like to know what about the years prior to 2000, your thoughts please Phil
August 3, 2012 at 2:10 pm
Ian N
More than the titles being taken from Rangers’ history, I am looking forward to the rest of Scotland seeing clearly that Celtic and Celtic supporters are fundamentally different to Rangers and their supporters. We are not “the other side of the same coin” that we have been too easily tagged as by the blinkered, the lazy and the biased in the past. Personally, while I think that removing the titles is necessary for justice, there is no making up for the sense of loss we had when these titles were won unfairly, often by few points.
August 3, 2012 at 2:07 pm
Kevin Gallagher
Or goal difference.
August 3, 2012 at 2:28 pm
Ben mcginlay
Totally agree my friend.
August 3, 2012 at 2:30 pm
mick
@ian well said m8 celtic fc is not twisted and scotland knows it its only the daily record that think diffrently
August 3, 2012 at 2:59 pm