How many Rangers football clubs can you get on the head of a pin?

Because of the shameful role of the mainstream media the debate on the status of the club formerly known as Sevco Scotland Limited  has become rather Jesuitical of late.

Ignatius Loyola once argued that it might be necessary to argue that black was white and the boys on the sports desks are doing their godly duty.

The official fiction in Scottish sports journalism is that the liquidation of Rangers (1872) was no big deal after all.

The club wasn’t affected at all and this administration and liquidation stuff it was merely the “holding company”.

Got that?

The club is ok, but the company is totally fekked.

Perhaps that is why so few supporters of the club marched to Hampden to save a stupid old holding company.

The current spin is that the company and the club are somehow separate.

That maybe the Orwellian version of the truth on Planet Fitba, but that is not the view of FIFA and UEFA.

The new entity had to start from scratch in Scottish professional football.

They were not “booted out” of the SPL or “demoted” to SFL3.

They were treated as a new club, for that is what they are.

Had they been allowed entry to the SPL and won the title then they would not be allowed to take part in the Champion’s League next season.

That is because NEW CLUBS are not allowed to participate in UEFA controlled competitions until they have existed for three years.

The SFA have turned a blind eye to fudge that allows a face saving fiction to be sold to the Ibrox klan.

Perhaps some intrepid sports journalists in Glasgow will want to clear this confusion up.

The simple thing would be to ask is The Rangers Football Club limited (AKA Sevco Scotland Limited) are subjected to the probation order imposed on Rangers football club following the discriminatory chanting of the Ibrox fans on March 17th 2011.

The current Ibrox outfit are new company, a new legal entity and IPSO FACTO a new club.

Mr Green and his colleagues are about to offer shares for sale, but shares in what precisely?

Are these shares in the club or in the company?

Because, we are told, these are two separate things.

If the bears are being offered shares in the company formerly known as Sevco Scotland Limited then, in a sense, the Ibrox klan can never ever own any part of the other worldly, transcendental thing called “Rangers”.

Despite the spiritual aspect about what constitutes the club, bricks and mortar are also important.

For the Ibrox klan it is significant that they still sit in the stadium that Bomber Brown “played for” (sic).

Of course it would be a great shame if someone, perhaps empowered by the court, say, would want that asset back off the company which currently owns it.

Now, of course, that couldn’t happen.

It is just unthinkable.

However, if it did then the vile liquidators couldn’t separate Ibrox from the club, only from the company.

Because those bonds are not of this world.

Comments

  • SeanBonJovi

    Reading this article again (7months later) is more relevant than ever.

    Dunfermline Athletic FC are on the brink of death through liquidation but the parallels in the stories of DAFC and Rangers could not be starker.

    This is mostly down to the biased and agenda driven MSM.

    They have tied themselves in so many lies and untruths that the current plight of DAFC should blow them all out of the water if the unthinkable happens and they are wound up.

  • nice piece phil. i think rangers fans have, a head in the sand mentality they wont or canot accept the situation they find themselves in, own doing by the way. do you agree

  • jimk47

    i had a good friend who was a mad rfc (deceased) supporter and certainly not a bigot in ahy sense of the word but when i would ask him how he could stand on the terraces of ibrox wek in and week and listen to thehateful rantings of a large section of the rangers support, his stock response, “these people are not the club”. when i pointed out that the bigotry was not confined to a collection of knucklewalkers and that club officials such as waddell, hope and even a clergyman, the late rev. currie (much beloved by the sunday post)had all made the assertion that rangers were a protestant club it would be the same.- “these people are not the club.” our discussions would often ascenr to the realm of metaphysics as my friend attempted to defend this ephemeral entity known as “the club”. it even got to the point wherre i gave him a copu of ryle’s “concept of mind.” and told him to read the section on the category mistake. but, alas, to no avail, he would not admit tautology that an entity is made up of its constituent parts and that a club consists of players, staff, directors and supporters and even argued the the rfc policy of not signing catholics was the product the directors and nothing to do with “the club”. to me this is an example of one of the worst effects of supporting that club, i.e. it induces schizophrenia in otherwise healthy people. to be fairthough, my bud was a aging hippy and his attitude might have been the result of the bad acid of ’72 but i doubt it dout it as i’ve observed this attitude in many supporters of the late rfc.

    ps. how do you correct in this feckin comment box?

  • 262 KubN

    The oldco, aka Rangers, continues to exist (at least in spirit) or did you miss the last minute goal disallowed at Berwick. It may not even “win” promotion given it’s performances against the fat amateurs so far.

  • Frankier

    masonic walker – If it is not a new club why then has it not been deducted at least 10 points? And why is it even playing fourth tier football when it didn’t hand in its audited accounts on time to allow it to continue playing in any league in Scotland, including the schoolboy one?

  • Mouldy67

    OSCAR KNOX APPEAL 

    Hello , just to let you know that I am planning to take part in a 50 mile cycle from Glasgow to Edinburgh, 09/09/2012

    During the next 2 weeks I plan to train very hard in order to be able to take part in this cycle where I would hope to be able raise some funds for “Wee Oscar Knox” who is 3 year old kid and is not keeping very well just now.

    You can read Oscar’s story on web link below….

    http://www.justgiving.com/Team-Oscar-Knox-Appeal-Cycle-09092012-Paul-Muldoon

    In the meantime, all donations are welcome, thanks 

  • Jim Wood

    Newco but same old SFA.
    They’re embarrassed and humiliated that they’ve got to provide ‘honest mistakes,’ at this stage of the season to keep the Newco in the hunt.
    Ha ha.
    Keep at them Phil.

  • Martin

    I’ve just changed my name to The Lance Armstrong, bought his old bike, claimed his titles and demanded entry on the tour next year. If anyone objects they will be called a bigot.

    Lance Armstrong Then

    Lance Armstrong Now

    Lance Armstrong Forever

    Coz We Don’t Do Cycling Away!

  • Ben mcginlay

    This is exactly what I have been telling the Newco fans all along, they don’t want to believe it as true, but certain so called sports writers are pandering to the masses by not telling the truth. This is what’s making it worse. I still can’t believe the MSM are still getting away with misreporting the facts. New club, new club, new club….are you listening. Please will UEFA make a statement.

  • PaulMc

    Phil, you naughty man! Stop bear bating with incessant logic, it hurts their brains. I suppose their brains really should come with the tag “Logic free since 1873″.

    I look forward to the usual suspects posting mental theories about how wrong we all are.

  • delbhoy

    I see sevco fc biggest investor has donated £6million to palestinian orphans whos parents have been killed due to Israeli aggression.I wonder what will go through his mind when he sees the klan with their open support and flaunting of israeli flags . Maybe someone should inform him about these rednecks

  • kiza

    I made a type error on my previous post but official confirmation of Airdrie United being a continuity of Clydebank is on the Scottish Football League website,under Airdrie United. Just the same as transferece of SFA membership between The Rangers Football Club plc and The Rangers Football Club Limited,old company to new company.

  • Bill

    Not the only Ibrox Park.

    If Sevco lose the keys to Ibrox as hinted in your item they may find themselves down under in more ways than one. Despite moving to Brisbane Australia I was memorably confronted with another Ibrox Park. This is a nursery (plants) purchased by the former owners of the original Govan Ibrox Farm. A rustic heritage indeed. And I thought I’d left all that behind. I wonder if they sell Forget Me Nots ?

  • Allyjambo

    Wouldn’t it be usefull if someone could provide us all with the documentary evidence of this football CLUB that apparently existed alongside Rangers FC Ltd/plc for over 100 years without anyone ever noticing it? It would be nice, too, if someone could get hold of the prospectus from Murray’s ill fated share issue from a few years ago to find out if it makes a clear definition of Rangers Football Club and Rangers FC plc and whether or not it makes it clear that prospective shareholders are not actually buying shares in Rangers Football CLUB but in some other business with a similar (identical) name. In fact, the prospectus from all previous share issues would be interesting too, to see how they define club and club plc. The memorandum and articles of incorporation would be handy and should prove one way or the other what happened to the club at the point of going limited. Of course, nobody who wants the myth to exist is going to look it up, and no succulent lamb is going to print the facts (truth). And what of Sevco (you know the one I mean, the one that bought the assets, alledgedly, of Rangers FC (IA))? Does it still exist? Is it out there somewhere, in the ether, or is it like all companies that change their name, continuing it’s existence, the same entity, only operating under a different name?

  • joe

    HAving another go after the arguments you used the other day were taken apart?
    As it happens that piece was a perfect illustration of someone starting with a conclusion then only looking for teh evidence that supports his pre-determined conclusion.

    This suject does seem to be causing a lot of concern for you Phil.
    Surely just knowing yourself to be correct should be enough? Why the desperation to convince the rest of “planet fitba”?

    • Ben mcginlay

      It’s causing a lot of people concern because the facts are being avoided to suit the klan. The sports writers in Scotland still favour a club that is dead instead of being impartial and printing the truth about Newco/Sevco/Whateverco. Why are they doing this ? This what everyone with a brain should be asking.

  • Scotjolly

    The funds / share issue capital raised will be used to buy the stadium, car park and Moonbeams Park as BDO will take all of those assets back and sell on the open market. The newco share issue money will be used to buy it back !!!!!! They might even get a break (probably,) and be allowed first refusal from BDO!!

  • JPD1925

    If the Newco qualify for Europe within the next 25yrs, what name will they use when making an application to compete in Europe?

  • Holy ground

    Excellent article Phil.

    Refuse to part with my hard-earned for any of the msm drivel, but am well aware of the insidious nature of the message being driven by the papers, radio and tv that “Ran**rs” are indeed the exact same entity they were prior to administration and liquidation – would also add SFA to that list.

    I do find very interesting Charley Green’s statement that he values Murray Park – still to be re-named ? – at £14 million. How much did his consortium fork out to D & P ?

    I wonder if the blunt Yorkshireman will regret some of his utterances once BDO are finally able to start their much anticipated work.

  • tambutnotbam

    I expect that Charles Green will have a job on his hands getting his £5.5million back off Duff and Phelps.

    I also expect Duff and Phelps will open themselves up to be sued left , right and centre from the BK`s, Walters consortium et al.

    Perhaps even the original Administrators put forward by HMRC in February will also be able to sue Duff and Phelps with all these potential legal claims hinging on whether or not Duff and Phelps acted unlawfully and under a conflict of interest in their administration processes of Rangers Football Club.

  • tambutnotbam

    Lord Hodge ruled at that time that Duff and Phelps MUST NOT sign off on their administration of the Ibrox club until he had been satisfied that a conflict of interest did not exist, that explains fully why Rangers are still in administration and also why the HMRC appointed BDO can not begin their liquidation of Rangers Football Club.

    My main point is that if, as it appears, that Duff and Phelps can not satisfy Lord Hodge then Charles Green owns NOTHING of what were considered the former Rangers clubs assets as all deals and contracts signed and “sealed” during that entire administration process of Rangers Football Club will be considered null and void.

    And in turn that will mean that Craig Whyte still owns Rangers F.C. despite being banned sine die, until new administrators are appointed.

    ………….. owe what a wicked web we weave when we first practise to deceive.

  • Tim A Loy

    Reason they were placed in 3rd Div is simple – it saves the SFA any embarrassment if they did win the SPL by having to explain to UEFA. If the Newco win Scottish Cup watch them scream about injustice or perhaps they’ll be paid off to lose…….. Or maybe Berwick will knock them out lol

  • tambutnotbam

    Lord Hodges investigations are looking at Duff and Phelps.

    He demanded they prove to his satisfaction that they did not administer Rangers under a conflict of interest and demanded that from Duff and Phelps on 22-6-12.

    On 22-6-12 Duff and Phelps immediately responded by saying that they would be delighted to furnish Lord Hodsge with his demands as it would help clear their name after the BBC and Mark Daly documentary alleged Duff and Phelps DID act under a conflict of interest.
    Duff and Phelps also threatened legal action against the BBC for the contents of their documentary.

    Here we are more than 9 weeks later and Duff and Phelps have neither sued the Beeb or crucially satisfied Lord Hodges legal demands.

  • tambutnotbam

    There is a Tesco`s in the heart of Milngavie, a very, very busy supermarket.

    Main problem that creates is that the current site is too small.

    There is not enough room to extend the existing Tescos out the way, they can only go up.

    This has caused planning problems with East Dunbartonshire Council and the people of Milngave are not too keen on building up the way either, so planning permission has been refused, for now.

    Murray Park (or has Mr Green renamed it as one of his promises) would solve Tescos and the people of Milngavies problem in that it is still convenient and only a half mile away from its current site.

  • Brenda

    Book ordered I’m eagerly awaiting it’s arrival and await your posts on here to brighten my day :) I have a feeling there’s a few up you sleeve to be shown quite soon ……… Too many unanswered questions and you are the very guy to answer them , I look forward to reading them, good luck and stay safe HH

  • tambutnotbam

    If it was only the MSM throughout Scotland painting this lie then that would be fine.

    However, the SFL, SPL, and SFA also support the idea that Rangers still exist and that Rangers1872 history is fully intact and alive and well with the Rangers new club competing in SFL3.

    The SFL3 official website shows Rangers history going back to 1872 listing all their “achievements since then.

    The SFL could not do that without official sanction from the Stewart Regans SFA.

    So its not just Scotlands MSM and the laptoployal corrupting the fact but Scottish Footballs 3 Governing bodies who agree and officially support the claims of Charles Green that not only is their 140years history unaffected but that it has been passed over to Greens new club fully intact, continuing without a break and functioning as planned.

  • andy

    HI PHIL! could you clear something for me, which is starting to really annoy me, why if sevco is a new football team are they allowed to wear 5 stars on their football tops? surely this has gone with the old club?

    • robertg

      Maybe it’s one star for every competitive game they’ve played? Or maybe one for each league point?

  • ExiledCelt

    The problem with the holding company arguement is at the crux of the issue facing Scottish football – the Peepil deemed any consequences as unfair. However if you view what happened to them as a consequence of being a new club (refused entry to SPL and out of Europe for 3 years), then for history to be rewritten and a holding club scenario being allowed to become the truth as per Josef Goebbel’s mantra – repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth) then from this perspective the consequences do indeed become punishments and the Peepil have indeed been wronged. This is why we have to ensure that the Peepil and the MSM are not allowed to continue to peddle the lie of was, is and forever Rangers. It was and is in the process of liquidation – it will be T’Rangers (new club).

    On the point of shares – cannot wait to see Charles explain this one – if its the same club, then will the sharegholders of old club be allowed to transfer them to the “new” club? Of course not – but then how can it be the same club, Charles…

    Going to fun!

  • TerryONeill

    Good article Phil,only in Scotland could there be a situation where rangers can illegally use ebt’s gain a £49M advantage over every other club and be defended by those bloodhound sports journalists as having won their trophies fairly and squarely on the park.

    The level of ineptitude,ignorance and crawling that takes place on a nightly basis on radio clyde is staggering.

    Guys like guidi n king are apologists ,journalists who defend the status quo,where else on the planet does that take place ?

    They should actually be ashamed but you need a conscience for that.

    Pigs at a trough have more of ah questioning attitude .

    • SamBrowneBelt

      Well said Terry. I miss your contributions to the Clyde phone-in – always guaranteed to put them behind the 8-ball. Wouldn’t be surprised if they’ve banned you.

  • Jim Wood

    Ha ha Phil, never one to duck a fight ( metaphorically speaking.)
    I stated long ago on your pages that I feared they looked like they were now fighting to own the history of the old club. It looks like their secret coven of MSM fans (I meant to say reporters, honest!) have really been ploughing into the goats big style to try and pull off this charade.
    But as I’ve previously stated, they know. Deep down it can never be the same because they know. They know and it is eating away at them. The governing body of football knows, that is why they, as a new club, cannot play for three years in the premier competitions at a European level like we can. That is why they still say we arra peepul, but not with quite the same vigour, the same ferocity and the same certainty.
    Like their zombie club, they are the walking dead, they are amongst us but they are not of us. Their shoulders droop a bit more. They are a bit slower in their pace and their eyes dart from floor to ceiling avoiding our eye contact. It is so funny.
    Certain members of the fourth estate are showing their own brand of this zombie-like state also,by their slight screech in their pronouncements, their lack of clarity in their ideas and their loss of short term memory. Who would have thought? Of course it could just be all the extra goat work they have been employing of late!
    And we know. We also know who played a main role in this process. Take a bow son. Can’t wait to read the whole story in the book. I feel sure we all can’t wait. It is like a second childhood, comparable to waiting for a new Celtic strip on my birthday.
    Keep at them Phil.

  • Mrhappy

    Do you know something we don’t phil? Re those big bad liquidators bdo?

  • roythebhoy

    So why the long wait? Is it to create a false sense of security for ra peeple or to dumb it all down for some big cover up? What about this apparent liquidation, the First Tier Tribunal, the SFA enquiry etc.
    It all seems to be taking along time to happen. I live in hope of a pantomime reprisal but secretly harbour a niggle that certain powers are at work.
    Regards
    Concerned citizen

  • Steve

    Tesco, on a site formally known has Ibrox Park, would be progress. The new-club (I have no idea what they call themselves today) can downsize to red-ash.

  • what doth it profit a fan that gains the whole

    world but suffers the loss of is own club

    hail hail

  • snawbaw

    Great post Phil, and also, if it is the same “club”, why didn’t they start this season with a 10 point penalty as surely the “club” is still in administration and therefore must have a 10 point deduction for still being in this state at the start of the new season….. The mind boggles!!!!

  • Welcome home, Phil. Nice to see you back to form after your travels. I found your article very confusing so, I guess, it explains perfectly the football club, non-football club, would be football club and the myriad of companies that The Rangers have been, are and always will be but unfortunately not from 1872. Perhaps that vile liquidator will give us simpler explanation i.e. Liquidate the old and take everything back from the new so that there is nothing – except maybe the green!

    H H

  • Thomas

    I think St Mirren better make haste with their fans buy out!
    St Sevco of Paisley, any bets?

  • captainmoonlight

    Spot on Phil, it’s rather gratifying seeing them in this wee provisional comfort zone, with the attitude that all’s well and good in the hun world where there is no shame on them for the debts to the butchers,bakers and candlestick makers. The bubble will burst and I can’t wait,ok I can because good things are promised to those….
    Hail Hail

  • Dhougal

    BrillPhil , there aint no tellin them ! Their new ‘conspiracy’ is P. Lawwell is runnin the SPL AND SFA . Let them throw their money at old rubbish .I’ll bet every Celtic fan has a Rangers fan mate ,who we feel sorry for and when you try to explain what’s happening to their club they say ……….”but we are ra peeeepul !!! ,weeee ARE the same club Right!!!!!!!!! …………….oops wee quote fae D. King there . About time one o these letters ( HMRC,BDO,SFA,SFL) put the beast to sleep !!! …….forgot (CHAS)

  • The Wallace

    Owners of shares in the Oldco patently didn’t own any part of the club when,in my opinion, Duff and Phelps fraudulently split assets from holding company, sold the assets that would have covered a fairish proportion of the debt, for a fraction of their worth and then sunk the holding company, along with it’s worthless shares, and it’s vast debt. D&P still have to satisfy Lord Hodge ( I think it is) that they were working in the best interests of the creditors by acting in this manner, so it is still up in the air what Sevco really do own. How can Rangers still be in administration and liquidated at the same time, this does not make sense and again in my opinion Sevco should not be allowed to trade under the Rangers name,at the moment or ever, even if it is just for the sake of clarity.
    As Chewin’ The Fat’s Karen Dunbar’s Kelvingrove character would say,”I smell Sh*te.”
    Hail, Hail.

  • davetheraveek

    what gets me is why is there no movement by the liquidators yet and how is it possible to do what dumb and dumber say is legal in separating the debts.Think maybe we should be pushing for answers here

  • David Mc

    Phil, nice piece it seems to be completely forgotten that RFC (1872) no longer exist and that the current incarnation have been punished for the crimes of the parent company. Was that also a cryptic clue as to the potential fate of Ibrox park? Do you know something we don’t?

  • Sammybhoy

    Getn confusion all this sevco stuff now phill? Wen is the bdo bhoys goin 2 show face??

  • EFFanning

    See page 15 of Green’s arrogant presentation where avoiding liquidation means keeping the club’s history: http://freepdfhosting.com/764719bf8c.pdf

  • Luke Warmwater

    This whole affair does throw up the question of what a ‘club’ is. Seems it only exists where the ‘members’, so to speak, consider it to be.
    The Rangers have the history of the club due to the SFA membership being transferred to it. My question is, how old is a membership?

  • Martin

    Good article, but by the time liquidation of the old co begins then the The Rangers LTD (Sevco) will themselves be in administration/liquidation. I suspect Sevco is a proxy for Ticketus, who are getting their money back.

  • Kevin

    Well, well. Is there Something in the pipeline I wonder.

    There was a time, before the liquidation of Rangers FC that I would have thought BDO was a problem of personal hygiene. It turns out BDO is a problem for Sevco and Co.

    How quickly can one organise a share issue, bank the cash and get the hell out of dodge?

  • Ignoranceisnodefence

    Another interesting piece Phil…you certainly are…the man with the Golden Quill….

    Keep up the good work and let’s hope the Liquidators bring the whole lot of rot tumbling down on the unwashed hordes AND the Administrators who do look very much a part of the game plan to screw the creditors and save the club /history and ultimately their infamy.

  • Kevin Gallagher

    Going by Sevco’s argument Airdrie would have Clydebank’s history.

    A quick look at Airdrie’s website reveals a clear declaration that they are a new club.

    • joe

      Yet amaingly the SFL say they were founded in 1965!
      http://www.scottishfootballleague.com/club/airdrie-united/

      By strange co-incidence that happens to be when Clydebank were formed as a senior club!

      What are the odds?

    • kiza

      Airdrie United are indeed officially a continuation of Clydebank FC,for confirmation go onto the EFL Official website where you will see foundation of the club was 1965,the date of founding of Clydebank F.C. Also you will see that honours won by Clydebank are artibuted to Airdrie United,Airdrie may not use the officail continuation but it’s there.

      As of Rangers,here is the thing Phil,remove your undoubted prejudice against the club and explain to every reader of your blog,i was going to say report but that’[s going to the extreme,why clubs that have been through the same procedure as Rangers who come under UEFA jurisdiction have had their historical timeline recognised as a continuos club by UEFA and their own countries relevant Football Association.

      I’ll give you examples,Middlesbrough F.C.,SCC Napoli and ACF Fiorentina,all three clubs went through the same procedure as Rangers but are recognised as continuos by UEFA,so Phil,as i said remove the prejudice and give us all an explanation as to why these clubs are afforded historical continuity by the relevant football authorities after transfer of relevant association membership from old company to new company and why Rangers should not. Would really like a reply to this Phil instead of ignoring something that doesn’t meet with your take on things. Swift reply would be nice.

    • Stu

      That’s correct Airdrie are a continuation of Clydebank – but that’s not Sevco’s arguement.

      Sevco didn’t buy an existing football club and rename them a close approximation of Rangers (but not too close, for legal reasons obviously), and then buy the assets of a defunct club – they simply bought the assets of a defunct football club, and tried to carry on as before, missing out the take over of a legitimate football team.

      A closer analogy would be if Airdrie United had bought the assets of Airdrie and then tried to carry on as before.

  • Mouldy67

    OSCAR KNOX APPEAL 

    Hello , just to let you know that I am planning to take part in a 50 mile cycle from Glasgow to Edinburgh, 09/09/2012

    During the next 2/3 weeks I plan to train very hard in order to be able to take part in this cycle where I would hope to be able raise some funds for “Wee Oscar Knox” who is 3 year old kid and is not keeping very well just now.

    You can read Oscar’s story on web link below….

    http://www.justgiving.com/Team-Oscar-Knox-Appeal-Cycle-09092012-Paul-Muldoon

    In the meantime, all donations are welcome, thanks 

  • Pete Lambie

    There’s a possibility for hilarity still to come. Should sevco bravely march into the Scottish Cup final and get the necessary penalties to win it.

    Since the clubs history hasn’t been broken, could they enter the Europa Cup? After all, it’s not like they’re brand new is it? 140 years n all that jazz!

    Of course in the real world, there’s no chance of them getting into Europe as the new club hasn’t got 3 years audited accounts.

    Bizarrely a qualifying criteria to join the SFA, then SFL. But hey that’s fudged because it’s The Rangers!

    An interesting question is who do the european co-efficient points from Glasgow Rangers belong to?

    Are scotland still awarded them for domestic and national team purposes?

    Also given those co-efficient points last five years, if in 3 years time The Rangers DO manage to qualify for Europe…….would they start from scratch?

    As expected of a new club or claim the remaining 2 years of old, dead & buried Glasgow Rangers european co-efficient points?

  • SamBrowneBelt

    Oh dear, another one from the deluded masses.

  • Big Mike

    And let all those years of cheating go scot free? do’nt think so. This institution whatever its name has shamed the Scottish game and must be punished accordingly.

  • Ben mcginlay

    You really do need professional help. Or deep down you know the truth because you are a regular visitor to this site and know the real facts that are being printed. Get a grip.

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