Take it down from your mast!

The Union flag has been flying proudly and, some would say, triumphantly over Belfast City Hall since 1906.

However, it isn’t there today.

Following a democratic vote in the council chamber the combined votes of the Alliance Party, SDLP and Sinn Fein decided that the British flag would fly over City Hall only on designated days.

“We voted for change. We voted for a City Hall for everyone” is how Sinn Fein council group leader Jim McVeigh characterised the objective of the motion.

Outside of the hall a loyalist mob gathered outside and then attacked the building, clearly to show their respect for the democratic process.

In the disturbance at City Hall two security guards and a Press Association photographer was injured.

These amateur psephologists then took their fascist road show across the city.

In rioting later in east Belfast St Mathews Catholic Church in the Short Strand was attacked.

Fifteen police officers were also injured when a mob of up to 1,000 loyalists rioted in the city centre and parts of east Belfast.

The idea of the Good Friday Agreement was that there would be a shared future and that, in working environments, a neutral space would be created.

The Union Flag has not gone from Belfast City Hall for good; it will be back on designated days.

Presumably important Royal Occasions, a notable bout of morning sickness for example.

However, ther old Norn iron is gone and it isn’t coming back.

The demographics alone will ensure that.

I am writing this in Ulster, but Donegal was never in Northern Ireland despite being further north than Belfast City Hall.

The Nine counties of Ulster in 19222 had the TMT problem (Too Many Taigs).

Thus Cavan and Monaghan were excluded for the same reason.

It is unarguable that the six county statelet was set up on a sectarian headcount in 1922.

Stability was based on repressive laws, loyalist mobs and a two to one “loyal” majority.

The underclass mob last night, I noticed that some had their faces heroically covered in Sevco scarves, are on the wrong side of history.

They fear equality.

Now in Norn Iron there is an equitable modern job market and poor Billy Rioter is up against Siobhán with a master’s degree.

In that scenario his degrees from the Grand Master don’t cut it anymore.

Like the West of Scotland there is a loyalist underclass problem.

In Belfast it is much larger, more entrenched and more threatened by political change than it is in Glasgow.

Subsequently it is currently a greater danger to the public good.

Flags matter in Belfast.

The Plantation was an aggressive land grab. People were dispossessed. It was culturally important to mark out territory.

The emblems of the invader were more powerful and important than those of the evicted natives.

This  supremacy was codified into law.

For most of my life it has been illegal in the Six Counties to fly the Irish tricolour.

The Flags and Emblems (Display) Act (Northern Ireland) 1954 was seen by many nationalist as a statutory instrument to suppress their cultural identity.

That day has gone.

Now there can be equality and respect between the traditions and that is what caused the Billy Boys to riot last night.

They fear the future.

Their Herrenvolk swagger will increasingly be replaced by the hunched shoulders of a defeated, bewildered tribe on the fringes of decent society.

In the meantime the PSNI must step up to the plate and protect the Queen’s Peace in her Britannic Majesty’s Realm.

At some point even these slow learner will realise that their day has gone.

They can bang the Lambeg as hard as they like, but it will merely sound like an echo from the past.

What the Billy klan are fighting is a future of equality and respect for everyone in those six north eastern counties of Ireland.

Hopefully their children will realise that what their parents fought for wasn’t worth The Troubles.

If they don’t then they too will be left behind by the march of human progress on this island.

123 thoughts on “Take it down from your mast!

  1. keith

    AD90
    1st iam not a republican.
    2nd iam not a catholic.
    iam just someone who dislikes some know it all who seems to have a opinion on everything and everyone.
    Listen for years unionists have been preaching to everyone who would listen to them that the ballot box would determine the future of the provence.
    Lets see what happens when the nationalists become the majority,lets see. the ballot box or what we are seeing unfold before our very eyes now!.
    AND PLEASE ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT MY POLITICAL OR RELIGOUS BELIEFS ARE NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS,
    I just find your comments repetetive, and as a consequence BORING!.KEITH

    Reply
    1. AD90

      Suppose that happens when you become frustrated at people not opening their eyes. never asked anyone to agree with everything I have to say… just maybe to think a little different about some things and realise maybe not everything is as set in stone as it seems? But you’re right, it’s absolutely pointless to try and alter peoples mindset when their mind has been set the same way virtually since birth it would seem. Always worth a pop though… And yes we’ll see if the nationalists now out number unionists at the ballot box. If that’s the case they’ll have a huge congratulations from myself.

      Reply
  2. AD90

    Ben McGinley you are the worst kind of Celtic fan. My best friend is a die hard Celtic fan and is mortified by the likes of you. I’ll wager you’re one of the “PIRA” brigade that glorifies the murder of women and children. You’re unhealthy obsession with a football team is a bit worrying. You seem to think that Rangers, Sevco, whatever you want to call them are the biggest problem in the world right now. This is… strange! And yes you do need to grow up. Football is a game. Why don’t you put your toys away an go read a broadsheet or watch the news (not just the sports section remember!) I know growing up can be hard but I think it really is time. Having an obsession with anything is a tad unhealthy, especially when its a football team… especially when it’s not even your football team! Sad, strange little man. The only thing that gives me heart is that most Celtic fans are so much better than you. You represent the minority. Most of your comrades are normal, well balanced individuals.

    Reply
    1. Ben mcginlay

      Ah here we go again. Keep repeating your views,. Then when hardly anyone agrees with you. Then the insults..next you will be threatening to knock my block off. Oh and I can think for myself and I am so glad I am not you. I agree there are bad things happening all over the world. And my fixation with whatever guise your club is, is down to the way that they have been dealt with. I still can’t believe you think they have done nothing wrong. And if your club disappeared I would not miss them one bit. I am a diehard fan too. I despise any association Celtic have, whether it be old f##m, sponsorship and endorsements. You are not even in our league, yet Chick Green constantly tries to hog the press continuingly mentioning an affinity with Celtic. You are an another deflection expert, using world affairs to smokescreen your arguments to avoid your clubs past and present inadequacies and financial affairs..

      Reply
    2. AD90

      God. I just don’t care about anything you ever have to say anymore. You’ve proven it’s not worth the aggravation. You seem to read things that aren’t being said… like asserting I was about to become aggressive, even though nothing I have ever said here would logically lead you to this conclusion? Anyway. There are a couple of people who are actually open their eyes to what I’m saying… shame you’re too blinded by hatred to do the same. I’m not saying I’m better that you or anyone… I’m not even talking about Rangers/Sevoc/whatever. I’ve only ever said maybe people need to stop seeing so much black and white and compromise a little more? I genuinely have no idea why you, or anyone on earth, would have a problem with that message or be offended by it.

      And Phil, I’ve seen far worse comments on this blog than that one…

      Reply
  3. Ben mcginlay

    AD90. I think the IRA are a not the same organisation they were when they first started. But I think I will leave it at that… If it boils down to it Iim not a bigot, because I couldn’t care less about religion. I have a major dislike for all things Oldco/Newco//Sevco. I have seen how things have panned out over the last two years have been a eye opener even for non football fans. The favouritism shown towards your club by the governing bodies has quite frankly been shocking. Your lot blame all and sundry for your predicament which was entirely your own doing. You still have the audacity to keep it going by repeating stuff you read from your friends of the MSM, and recently with Chick Green pandering to the anger mob by sticking by their wishes not to attend the S/ cup game at Dundee Utd. Richard Gough has been the only one who has said that this is daft and playing the game is what it is all about. Instead of childish vendettas. IMO that is what you lot are all about…also your condescending comments at the end of your posts, ‘deal with it’ ‘ grow up guys’. etc is suggesting that you are right and everyone else is wrong.

    Reply
    1. AD90

      So anyone who doesn’t dance to the same tune as you is “boring” and should “piss off”. So much for the great catholic, republican belief in equality for all! But thank you for illustrating my point beautifully with one ignorance filled sentence! You should be proud!

      Reply
  4. Ben mcginlay

    AD90…..another Sevconian telling US we are all wrong and coming on here to put us all right on everything political and Oldco/Newco/Sevco. Aye your good mate. I think you should take a look at yourself. Bringing up recessions and world problems and telling us we should look at the big picture instead of worrying about Sevco. Classic Sevco manoeuvre, evading the issues that your old club, new club are a total disgrace. And you know it.

    Reply
    1. AD90

      I had my suspicions but the past two comments have convinced me. You’re beyond help. At no point did I tell anyone they are wrong. I have taken a balanced view on BOTH sides, not ignoring one or the other- something you should try perhaps? And my opinion on the global financial issues are 100% genuine. Football is a GAME. That is it. I swear on my boys life I do not care one jot what you think about my team, because it’s JUST A GAME! There are far more important things to worry about right now! That is not a “manoeuvre” or anything else (?????) It is a genuine opinion. Jesus Christ if you could get yourselves this worked up at the bankers and corrupt politicians as you do at a bloody football team we’d be out of the mess we’re in in no time. The levels of hatred seeping from you are unreal. You’re a bigot and you can’t even try and hide it.

      Reply
    2. AD90

      Oh and the very fact that you think that “my club” being a “disgrace” is “the” issue in the world today as opposed to global financial problems etc speaks volumes about your mentality. I need to take a look at myself? really? You first.

      Reply
  5. Ben mcginlay

    AD90 I was putting my point forward. I do not always totally agree with everybody’s posts or blogs. I can think for myself. You are the one who is assuming that I am an irish republican catholic Celtic supporter. All I was pointing out that the mob who were rioting, a fair number of them were wearing football tops and scarves. I know there are bad on both sides. But one side is definitely not as bad as the other. It’s the attitude that bothers me. Where else in the British Isles would you get this. I’ll tell you, nowhere but NI..it is about time parity prevailed in the 6 counties, but the dinosaurs are loathe to let this happen. And the comparison between them and Newco supporters is frightening. Also Phil has a democratic right to put his views across. The tabloids spoon feed the Newco fans every day with the same old shit and the lemmings lap it up. The press have a duty to be impartial, but that is definitely NOT the case. And that is a big part of the problem…

    Reply
    1. AD90

      Ok… so tell me Ben, what is your opinion on the IRA. I’m not talking about the original freedom fighters and the Easter rising, they have my utmost respect. I’m talking about the murderers who slaughtered civilians, and while we’re at it, the people who fill celtic park and chant about their deeds like they are acts of heroism. Is that not just as bad, if not worse than some morons with in scarves running through the streets?

      Reply
  6. BCReid

    “loyalist thugs”
    “sevco scarves”
    what sort of “journalism” is this?!
    It’s as one-sided as a Fox News Report at a NeoCon Republican Party rally.
    If you’re a journalist then I’m Michael Collins.
    Can’t you at least TRY to mask your hatred and bitterness?

    Reply
    1. Ben mcginlay

      What’s your take on things then.. It looked like thugs to me and a lot of them were wearing Sevco tops and scarves. How is it biased ?

      Reply
    2. AD90

      I think this person is trying to make the same point as me Ben… One which you seem hell bent on missing at every opportunity. As a person in a position of some authority, Phil has some responsibility to put forth objective and unbiased reporting. Yes the fools on show for the past few days are loyalists and yes some are wearing Rangers scarves. So what are we to take from this? That all loyalist and Rangers fans are like this? That each and every one of us have left our homes to go rioting? Because as far as I can see that is very much the view that is constantly distributed on this blog. Tell me, when was the last time Phil reported some Nationalist, catholic horror stories? Can you remember? I for one have never seen one. Yet how often are those baddies from “the other side” reported? On a weekly basis it would seem. So again, what are we to take from this? That nationalists and catholic’s do not do “bad things”? Absolute nonsense. Of course they do. This blog is nothing but propaganda and anyone ignorant enough to take it as anything other than that needs their head examined. Open your eyes and realise that the morons on both side need sorting. The real reason the troubles have lasted as long as they have is because you have pig ignorant fools on both sides who are completely unwilling to budge on their archaic opinions.

      Loyalists/Unionists/Protestants refuse to accept that perhaps they are the foreign force in a country in which they were never really wanted. They refuse to understand why this has led to so much bitterness within the native community. They refuse to accept and apologise for the atrocities committed by their own and instead celebrate them. They refuse to acknowledge that maybe their religion isn’t the only “right” one and that other people are entitled to their own beliefs.

      The Nationanalist/Republican/Catholic community equally refuse to accept that yes, maybe these “invaders” should never have been in their country, but they are now, they have been for generations, and they now have just as much right to be there as they do. They refuse to accept that like it or not there is a massive section of their country who DO want to be part of the union even if they don’t. They equally refuse to accept the atrocities committed by their own, instead they glorify men who are nothing better than murderers. And they equally refuse to acknowledge that maybe their religion isn’t so divine either, and give others their religious beliefs.

      Please, do not tell me one side is not as bad as they other. I just do not buy they poor down-trodden catholic crap. I’ve experienced first hand that both sides give as good as they get. If you genuinely believe that then all that tells me is you’ve been taking Phil’s propaganda with much less of a pinch of salt than you really should have been.

      Reply
  7. Mac Tomas

    Steviegee
    In reference to your earlier comment “We are the people” is a White Anglo Saxon Protestant, racsist slogan. Are you happy about still using it ?
    Here’s something for you to deal with. In the land of “Narnia” the pretend country of “A protestant country for a protestant people” the Union flag was taken down from Belfast city hall. The ‘Peepels spell’ has been broken by a democratic decision by representatives of ‘all the people’ Deal with that !
    Personally most Celtic fans couldn’t give a s*** about Sevco except for the fact they rose from the stinking carcass of an institution that left hundreds of creditors out of pocket. How’s your conscience dealing with that ???

    Reply
  8. steviegee

    i seem ton have rattled a few cages ! sorry gents try and calm down i was only stating the fact that you can not kill a football team/club or liquidate it , a company YES , but the team/club NO you really are obsessed and clutching at straws Rangers are alive and kicking if bmw or burger king were the holding company the team would still be Rangers remember formed in 1872 and in 1899 became plc so do the 27 years in between not count also ?? i understand some are gutted Rangers are still around but for your own sanity please accept the Rangers will never die.

    Reply
    1. Ben mcginlay

      Its one thing that you don’t deal with is fact. Evade the real issue. Check the UEFA website on the rules of new clubs. Then again, don’t bother. You can’t handle the truth.

      Reply
  9. Ben mcginlay

    Steviegee, where do you get your train to, ‘Delusional Central’. That seems to be the party line now from all Sevconians that the PLC or the holding company went into liquidation, not the club. So what was the last share scheme for then, that hardly got off the ground. Chick Green before administration admitted that if a CVA was denied, liquidation would mean the end of the club as we know it. But now himself with a best supporting actor in the shape of your manager and a walk on part from the MSM constantly repeat that Rankurs are still alive and kicking. Chick has an agenda, he wants a return on his investment and he realises that he has to pretend that there is a continuation for that to happen. Sally and the MSM just want that to be the case. You and your support don’t care where or how your club go about their business. A list of creditors in your wake. You constantly flit between Oldco and Newco when it suits..I’m so glad I am not YOU my friend….check the rules on new clubs and playing in Europe and let me know your thoughts on that.

    Reply
    1. kenny c

      the fact rangers are not playing in europe has absolutely nothing to do with the club being supposedly dead. as soon as rangers entered administration they were automatically barred from entering european competition. maybe time you checked uefa rules. it was well known before the end of the season that regardless of where rangers finished that there would be no european place and that was well before the liquidation process began.

      Reply
    2. Ben mcginlay

      Kennyc check the UEFA rules again. You are wrong. Can’t play in Europe for 3 seasons due to a new club. Nothing to do with administration. 10 points deducted in the SPL for that and that was it as it would be for any other club..

      Reply
    3. kenny c

      apologies, got that slightly wrong. administration didnt carry an automatic ban but failure to exit administration before march 31st and the fact whyte hadnt paid that years p.a.y.e cost rangers their european place. nothing to do with being a new club. im not denying that any new club cant play in europe for 3 seasons but in this case it doesnt apply to rangers

      Reply
  10. steviegee

    just back from a birthday party today so if my spelling is a bit off please forgive but i will tell you one thing for a dead club the throw one hell of a party !!!!!!!!!! 140 years happy birthday RANGERS !!!!!

    Reply
    1. Ben mcginlay

      Happy birthday in the 3 rd division. your clubs not a year old yet. keep believing that you have not been liquidated. You can’t beat a bit of nostalgia, having a party for your former club..just short of the 140 years though..so the head burying and cherry picking continues……

      Reply
    2. steviegee

      you are spot on my friend , the plc was liquidated but how can you end a team /club ect??? as has been said who cares who owns it ,you can not erase history FACT and today i witnessed 140 years of history unless i was on drugs it must really get on your **** that Rangers are alive and selling out (49,000+) as lionheart stated at half time WE ARE THE PEOPLE .deal with it .

      Reply
    3. PaulMc

      Are you sure you’re not mixing up years with days? There is no such thing as 140 year old Scottish Football team.

      There was a team that played for 139 years called Rangers.

      Reply
    4. Neil

      glad to hear you have got over the anger and denial stage, you must be feeling much better, your club is financially better, although I notice they cannot show proof of finances going 3 years back.

      Why is that the? only asking like

      Have a great day

      PS are you on the UEFA/FIFA web site yet??

      Reply
    5. Spartacus MacDonald

      “The former Rangers Football Club was placed into administration in February” BBC News 4/12/12
      “The club, which is now in liquidation” BBC News 4/12/12

      Steviegee- you are not on drugs, you are just having difficulty coming to terms with reality. You now support a new club in the Irn Bru Scottish Third Division which has borrowed the name and symbols of a club that was liquidated in 2012.
      You cannot just magic things up and hope that everyone will agree with you.

      I thought I heard a rumour that Jim Traynor had a new job as Director of Communications for the New Rangers Football Club. Wasn’t that his job with the now defunct Rangers Football Club?

      Reply
    6. SamBrowneBelt

      Steviegee, I’m almost convinced, but can you clear up a few minor points for me?

      1) If it’s the same club, why are they in Div 3? A change in ownership (as you put it) doesn’t normally mean a drop of three divisions, does it? I mean, they weren’t relegated, so what can have happened?

      2) If it’s the same club, why didn’t they play in Europe this season? Again, a change in ownership doesn’t normally mean that you can’t play in Europe, does it? I mean, they finished second in the league, and UEFA haven’t banned them.

      3) Why were players like McGregor, Naismith etc able to walk away from their contracts?

      4) Ownership hasn’t changed, because no-one stepped forward to buy the Old Club. No-one bought them, simple. Instead Charlie came forward and purchased the body parts of the deceased. You have my sympathy, but you’re now willingly accepting the misinformation being peddled by the media – at some point, you’ll need to face reality. Why are you happy to have your heads stuck in the sand?

      Reply
    7. Neil

      steviegee,
      mate, its all changed since you lifted your head out of the sand
      WE ARE NOW THE PEOPLE!
      Hail hail
      Deal with it

      Reply
    8. AD90

      This is yet another redundant, never ending argument. For me, and all other Rangers fans, my team is very much alive and well- in the sense that we play in blue, with the RFC crest on the jersey, in front of the same fans at the same Ibrox which is filled with the same history and tradition it always has been. That is why personally speaking my club, and any other club can never die. I’m not talking about holding companies and plcs, I’m talking about the emotion and passion that comes with being a football fan.

      But if we are talking technicalities and technically Rangers are no more then why all the venom coming from these parts? By your own admission Rangers are dead and their history, culture and tradition died with them. And in their place is a new club with a clean slate, no sins to answer for. So why exactly are “The Rangers” fans still having to put up with the same abuse and insults as those other “Rangers” fans? By your own logic the two are completely different surely? It seems to me that when it suits other people for us to be oldco we are, but when it suits for us to be newco, we’re that too. When it comes to the mistakes of the past- the murray years, the shameful policy of not signing catholics, oldco debts etc, then “Rangers” are very much alive. But when it comes to past honours- cup winners cup, 9 in a row, uefa cup etc, then it doesn’t count and we’re “The Rangers” again! If you want to believe we’re dead in the water then thats fine, you’re entitled to your opinion, doesn’t make a blind bit of difference to Rangers fans what anyone else thinks (when has it ever!) But you really should stick to one side of the fence or the other. We’re either Rangers, and have the same history both good AND bad. Or we’re The Rangers with a clean slate and a fresh start and shouldn’t have to put up with any of your bile. You can’t have it both ways I’m afraid.

      But really more to the point…. WHO THE HELL CARES!!! Every time I come near this blog I’m astounded by the mentalities of some people. World wide recession, crushing youth unemployment levels, horrific child abuse cover ups… yet all people on here seem to concern themselves with is: Are Rangers FC a new or old company? Jesus Christ… grow up guys.

      Reply
  11. G Mason

    The most ironic thing about the whole situation was Hilary sticking her oar in.

    Can you imagine the scene if anyone told the Americans they could not fly the stars and stripes outside city hall?

    Reply
  12. gazthechef

    Brilliant piece Phil.cant believe some of the thinking here. Shouldn’t be surprised though.like you say that mentality is fading.the sands are shifting.its apocalypse now for the Klan.they should accept the end and embrace the future…a united 32 county Ireland of equals.peaceful,free,tolerant and civilized.

    Reply
  13. pat

    I clearly remember as a fifteen year old literally sitting on the back of the bus and,with others,having to experience the sectarian bile from Mackies workers who would embark outside the factory.These were members of the protestant working class aristocracy ,privileged and assured of jobs in heavy industries like Mackies,harland and wolff shipyard and Shortts.Emboldened by the blatant sectarian and discriminatory practices of successive Unionist governments they readily adopted the supremicist mindset which is still much in evidence today.The violent protests over the union flag no longer being flown fron Belfast City Hall every day of the year is an outworking of this mentality and inevitably leads to the vicious and unprovoked attacks on innocent catholics and their property.The importance of symbology and the reaction from these bigots when what they refer to as their culture is in any way threatened should not be underestimated.Despite the considerable socio-economic and demographic changes in the north over the last fifteen years or so,and a political framework which enshrines for the first time in the history of this part of Ireland an equality agenda,the loyalist/unionist community,to a very large part,remain resistant to the type of change which would promote real peace and a shared society.Unless and until there is an acceptance by Unionists that what they refer to as culture should not mean symbolic hegemony and that all are equal,the mayhem and violence being witnessed over the flying of the union flag will continue .

    Reply
  14. highseastim

    Steven Brennan,I believe that you can nowadays count on Scottish Labour as the “Tartan Tories” due to the incredible amount of times the two parties vote as one..sickening really!!

    Reply
    1. Sir Reginald Loudpants

      highseastim – i’d have to disagree with your statement. thery’re not voting “together” : they’re the opposition parties. they’re voting against the SNP : not “with” each other.

      a subtle difference.

      Reply
  15. AD90

    Yet more spectacularly “unbiased” opinion here. I forgot the Irish Nationalists/Republican community don’t have an extreme “underclass” as well do they? Not according to you anyway. It’s funny how you never pick up on any of the horror stories about your own… According do you the only bad people on earth are those who wear red, white and blue. Unbelievable. Don’t get me wrong, there are definite morons who support the union and the crown etc etc and they deserve the disdain of society at large. But I can equally see just as many morons who wear green white and orange… I always find it funny that a supposedly intelligent man such as yourself can’t.

    Reply
    1. Ben mcginlay

      AD90 Here we go again. “One side is as bad as the other”. Utter crap. The original Republicans had a cause to fight for, and they had to fight the best way they could. They could not fight the British forces head on, so were forced to fight the guerrilla way,as do any force who are badly outnumbered and want to protect themselves and their rights. I am sure the British PR went into overdrive to vilify the Republicans and gain support from the public. They have done this all their history. What was it. Oh aye “make the world England”.

      Reply
    2. Mac Tomas

      AD90 Your perfectly correct to point out that there are morons who wrap themselves in the Tricolour. In fact there are a few who embarrass the Saltire for that matter & we on this side dont do ourselves any favours if we ignore it. However a look at the crime figures relating to sectarian hate crime suggests the argument that one is as bad as the other doesn’t stack up.
      Its been said often before here it’s the “We are the peepil” sense of superiority & entitlement that generates so much of the animosity. Also “Super Rangers, no one like us, we don’t care”. A self fulfilling prophesy ?

      Reply
    3. AD90

      Yes Ben, the ORIGINAL Irish republicans deserve nothing but widespread admiration and respect. As you say they had a cause well worth fighting for. When that deteriorated into thugs in balaclavas blowing up innocent civilians, pregnant women and all, they stopped deserving that respect. I know you’ll give it the “eye for and eye” crap, yes I know what the British army did to the Irish civilians, and yes it’s shocking, but by committing acts of terrorism the so call Irish freedom fighters lowered themselves to the level of those they supposedly hated. Both deserve the same disdain because in the real grown up world, two wrongs do not actually make a right.

      I’d love to see the figures you’re quoting here… I can speak from first hand experience that both sides are very much as bad as each other. I am not a protestant or a unionist as I’ve said before. I can’t stand organised religion of any kind and I will be voting for independence in 2014. I am a football fan and that’s it. Yet I’ve lost count of the times I’ve had to grit my teeth and endure the “dirty orange bastard” venom. I do however have the sense to know that the Celtic fans who indulge in such disgusting behavior are not representative of the majority. I’m just fed up of that same common sense not being applied when the shoe is on the other foot.

      The problem is that neither side will give the other an inch. When you have two sides adamant that they are “right” you get a situation such as the one in Ulster for the past god knows how many years. There is no “right” answer to situations like this, it’s complex and convoluted and intricate. It is not just black and white. And there is most definitely right and wrong on both sides. But when neither side is willing to acknowledge this you have an explosion (figuratively and literally it would seem) The opinions expressed on this blog illustrate that beautifully. It’s “us and them, we’re right they’re wrong, we’re good they’re evil” and that’s that. Same narrow mindedness, same indoctrination, same bigotry- different colour scheme. I could go onto a unionist “proddy” blog and read the same bile but with different insults. The saddening thing is none of you even realise that by being so narrow minded, indoctrined and bigoted you are every bit as bad as “the peepil” you profess to hate so much.

      Reply
    4. Spartacus MacDonald

      AD90: You are correct to remind everyone here that it is far too simplistic to think that Irish-Nationalist-Catholic-Celtic equals good and anything from the other side is bad. There can be a tendency for sanctimonious comments from those of the so-called “Celtic Family”.

      Break the union! Vote for a new Scotland as an independent republic!

      Reply
  16. jimCB

    I agree with others who say that the SNP is a means to an end.
    They have said this themselves. If Scotland had become independent sooner we would have been one of the richest small nations given the oil revenue. We have more in common culturally with the Scandinavian nations, with Ireland, Brittany, Galicia, Catalonia, the Basque country than we have with Anglo Saxon England. I’m not anti English. I lived in London for fourteen years. I’m not a supporter of the Union or the dead Empire. I think we can do better. There’s change in the air. Seize the time.

    Reply
  17. Ian ferguson

    Phil,

    I read this & it takes me back to a previous piece of yours.

    You were lecturing in those days & had the “wrong” type of number plates on your car, but your accent had the underclass who were waiting to beat up a Taig baffled… You went on to say then how they were being failed by their leadership & left behind in education & the social changes which were taking place.

    Gusty Spence’s input about them being cannon fodder & the tome Unloved, Unwanted have obviously made no impression on them at all.

    The guy who was interviewed on TV made my toes curl…”they have taken away our bonfires & parades, & given them equal rights, now it’s our flag” I was waiting for a Billy Connellyesque punch line, it’s a good kick in the erse they need, but no, this character was almost crying.

    Locked into & lodged in the past, where blatant discrimination saw them through & confirmed that they were the people & laws were made to ensure it, they can’t grasp that times are changing.

    Obviously no one in the leadership, within their communities, has pointed out that the only way they will progress is by education & modernisation. They are in effect another lost generation.

    The biggest problem I have about their Luddite choice is that there will be innocent victims of their rage & desperation to avoid facing up to the truth.

    More ” Bouncy” victims… It is time for the Politicians & the “Modernised” police Force to face up to this rabble & tackle them in a proper & organised fashion, they are not going away & will refuse to change, old habits die hard & the feeling of their power waning will make for desperate times if they are allowed to act unchecked.

    It will be interesting to see how “The Powers that Be” react.

    Reply
  18. k

    Hi Phil how about you!!
    how about them celts!!
    Dont know if i am prouder of you or the celts!! Go on its the celts!! Everyone in the big machine!! Whatever your g-d praise the lord!!!

    Reply
  19. Andy

    Interesting. Exactly what equality and respect do Republicans show to a community described as “immigrants” and “Klan” members?

    The Irish Republic remains one of the most reactionary states in Europe – how many states let women die rather than allow them to control their own bodies ? – Unless Republicans move beyond the type of yah boo sucks triumphalism in Phil’s article all that demographics will produce is a resentful British minority in a foreign state.

    Reply
    1. Mac Tomas

      Andy
      You make a reasonable point referring to The Republic’s resistance to progress. I would say reactionary is too strong a label. There should be a full separation of church & state, an Irish NHS would be nice & a decent sized left of centre representation in the Irish parlement is long over due. However this resistance to progress is also evident in the British Union. The House of Lords with unelected Anglican Bishops ?, An Aristocrat as head of the State & the State endorsed church.
      However I cant agree with you on the abortion issue & as far as a UI provoking resentment in the Loyalist community I have only known them as permenently resentful. Even when they were in total control of the province. Furthermore protestants haven’t fared too badly at all in the republic. I’m told that the orange Order continues to march to this day in Donegal, unmolested !

      Reply
    2. AD90

      Couldn’t agree more Andy. The “we’re such lovely, tolerant open minded souls” facade is hard to believe when you see these kind of words and phrases being bandied about for no other reason than someone being a protestant, unionist or- god forbid a Rangers fan! But “they’re” so much better than “us”… Clearly.

      The likening of the protestant unionist to the sub human result of some experiment gone wrong also hammered home what tolerant people we’re dealing with here. I believe the Nazis used similar de-humanising techniques to convince people the Jews were somehow less than human… I’ll say it again… tolerance at it’s best!

      Reply
  20. Neil

    Browny
    I live in England and vote Tory every time now.
    The more chance I have of keeping them in power down here, the more chance my beautiful homeland has of regaining her freeeddoommmm!
    Alba go Bragh

    Reply
  21. andy murray

    A think extra police\security will be needed at the house of parliament and buckingham palace after the announcent that the rule to exclude royals inline to the throne not to marry Catholics has been rightly dropped! The klans week goes from bad to worse! However chick green still makes me laugh!

    Reply
  22. Frankier

    Just what kind of leaders will this great independant Scotland have? People like Donald Dewar, a rabid bigot, Jack McConnell, Christine Graham, Phil Gallie, Desperate Dan Goldie, or even Alex Salmonds? Thanks very much but no thanks very much. These types are only glorified parochial committee members and the best that this country will ever produce. Where were they all when Neil Lennon, McBride and Cardinal O’Brien were getting bombs and bullets sent to them? Anyone so desirous of a Marxist State should nip over to Cuba or China and get themselves a job. I have seen all these great “socialists” like Joe Gormley and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock in action and I wouldn’t trust them as far as I could throw a cube metre of iron.

    Reply
    1. Spartacus MacDonald

      Frankier- No doubt you prefer the sheer talent that Westminster produces: Cameron, Clegg, Blair, Brown et al. You cannot be serious!
      Cuba looks pretty good! Great health service and a great education service. No doubt you prefer underfunded health, education and social services so the rich can get even richer.
      What’s your priest telling you to do?

      Break the union! Vote for a citizen’s democracy in Scotland

      Reply
  23. browny

    Steven – Tories don’t believe in free tuition fees, free prescriptions, free travel and personal care for the elderly. You judge an organisation by their actions not their enemies propoganda. I will be voting for Independence because I want to live in a more socially just world and don’t want to spend anymore of my life being ruled by the elite – Cameron, Blair, milliband, clegg…what have they done for us?

    Reply
  24. FrancieBhoy

    Gerry Kelly wanted a compromise but had to go with the democratic process. Gerrys behaviour must make them gag. Democracy in Norn Iron has never been top of the agenda for the marauding gangs of Neanderthals who have ruled the roost through their gerrymandering and thuggery. This new process may seem alien to the hordes but they better get used to it. The true owners of Ireland are gradually taking back what is rightfully theirs. TAL

    Reply
    1. steviegee

      neil , what do you mean watch this space ? is something going to happen ? i doubt it very much most people in the republic are quite happy the way things are and i doubt it very much if they would welcome over a million protestants/unionists who would be living in an roman catholic state , how would the republic please them and keep them happy and what if , god forbid violence broke out ? how would the guards or irish army cope ? remember 30,000 British soldiers struggled , as ive said i think most people in the south are quite happy also eire has given up its claim , as soon as people realise there will be never be a united ireland because the majority on both sides dont want it we can move on.

      Reply
    2. Neil

      Yes something is going to happen, it’s happening already, too slow for us to gage on a daily basis.

      Lets go back to “71″, internment had just begun, lets go to today, have things changed since then!

      Disarmament,Peace Process (loosely)-Good Friday agreement, Union Flag taken down…..this is change but over a 30 year period.

      In 2040 when this site has grown from strenght to srength I will remind you of the email I posted and we can see clearly the further changes that have taken place.

      We might even have a monarch married to a Catholic!

      “Watch this space”

      Reply
    3. steviegee

      do not worry about the spelling it can not be any worserer than mine ! all i was saying is in my opinion there will never be a united ireland because both sides are in the majority happy to live in peace and the republicans will say they are irish and the loyalists say they are British but if you force the loyalists into a united ireland were the roman catholic church has in my opinion too much influence how would that work? as i also have said eire has given up its claim also i have met and worked with many people from eire and the subject is never an issue and is very seldom spoken about the real problem is people who do not live in ulster stirring things up then going home to the safety and peace of their homes without the consequences affecting them.

      Reply
    4. paulmac

      Stevie…it’s a small point but an important one…people in Norn Ireland are Northern Irish…not British…

      Britain consists of Scotland…England and Wales…

      Passports clarify this with the phrase of the United Kingdom of Great Britain AND Northern Ireland…

      So I’m afraid there claim of being British is entirley wrong.

      Reply
    5. steviegee

      a small point but a wrong point , they are and ulster is a part of the British isles and as part of the the British isles and of the United Kingdom have the right to call themselves British by the grace of god

      Reply
    6. paulmac

      Stevie…I’m afraid your wrong…you are now making things up to fit your belief.

      Britain consists of Scotland, England and Wales.

      Ulster is not an island…it shares a land border.

      The United Kingdom consists of Great Britain and Norn Ireland (Ulster)

      I know it may pain you to accept that you are not British but Norn Irish.

      But thems the facts!

      Reply
  25. joe burt

    Phil.

    This was always going to be the long war.
    Change takes time but it is slowly coming as you can see .Look back 1 year 10 years 20 years the changes are huge.
    In another 20 years the statelet will be unrecognisable,26+6=1 as an earlier post stated.

    KTF

    Reply
  26. Mac Tomas

    THE REDNECK OF ULSTER DON’T DO DEMOCRACY !
    A symbolic event took place last night. A small but significant step towards a United Ireland. This also has significance for us in Scotland.
    I’m a lifelong republican for both Ireland & Scotland. I cannot comprehend the Scottish Catholic schizophrenia on this. Surely we or anyone should not be prepared to live in fear of the right wing Unionist underclass in Scotland, or a perceived resentful protestant political class. It should certainly not influence our votes in the referendum.
    In Ireland Republican & unionist politicians have commented on the upcoming Independence vote in Scotland. Republicans positively & Loyalist Reg Impey & others having the temerity to imply that the pro Independence sector in Scotland is responsible for potentially fomenting unrest in Norn Iron.
    In Scotland we have had the Orange Order refusing to rule out resistance against a democratically elected Independent state, but within a generation it is now possible that both NI & Scotland will lower the Union Flag forever. There is now a commonality between the two movements.
    A major concern however is the reaction of the “Bombs & bullets in the post Boys£. I don’t think they will go down without a fight. This area of concern has received zero attention in the Scottish press. However, we should certainly not live in fear of that prospect.
    If you have a thought on this Phil I would be grateful to hear a few words.

    Reply
  27. Steven brennan

    Lets think about the flags above celtic park and temple of Govan
    The 2 clubs play in Scotland in Scottish leagues
    Both fly a union flag
    One flies a tricolour
    WHY?
    I believe the only flag flown should be the saltire and in my teams case the league flag.
    It might be a start!!!

    Reply
    1. paulmac

      The last time I looked there were a number of national flags flown at Celtic Park, not just the union flag and the Tricolour..

      The fact the tricolour is a flag of peace seems to have been overlooked in this obsession with flags…

      Reply
  28. droid

    Notable absence of the rubber bullet and cd gas as means of crowd control but relatively low collateral for the sake of progress. We should applaud the 1000s who remained at home abiding by HM law. Minority rule no more.

    Reply
  29. Vinnie

    Thought provoking, brilliantly and eloquently stated with classic use of understatement (sarcasm?) in part. Top marks again, Phil and also to many contributors.

    If I’m not wrong, the roots of the Tricolour were symbolic of peace between the Nationalists (Green of course) and Orange (The ‘Planters’, followers of William of Orange) with the White flag of truce in between. It makes it all the harder to understand the mentality of the rioters when they have been offered equality in a land to which their only ‘right’ should be similar to any immigrant, unlike that offered to Irish settlers in certain parts of Scotland.

    Surely a fully integrated education system would help stamp out the sort of thuggery and intimidation shown by Neanderthal morons ‘protesting’ about another stone being removed from their idyllic castle.
    Get real, your ‘reign’ is over.

    Don’t get me wrong, I love a bit of banter and have oft called my West of Scotland cousins (south of the Clyde)”a shower of orange b******s” in response to some ‘term of endearment’ like “You, ya Fenian so’n'so”, but sticks and stones etc. I’ve had lots of friends from ‘the other side’ and apart from a few slightly hostile days either side of the now defunct OF games we managed to get on well. As John Lennon said, “Give Peace a Chance”.(on equal terms only !)

    Reply
  30. john

    You have to wonder at the bravery of the Nationalist/Republican movement in the northern part of Ireland. Continually faced with bigotry and repression on a grand scale for too many generations to count they have never lost sight of their sense of themselves as Irish people or, of their goal of being free from British rule. You have to wonder also then, at the attitude of many of their ‘cousins’ across the water here in Scotland. A fair number of Scots of Irish descent are prepared to denounce what has go on in the North of Ireland as sectarian oppression by the British state but, at the same time cower in fear at the thought of actually playing a part in the break up of England’s little empire and vote for independence for Scotland. At the same time they out themselves as British unionists and align themselves with the lunatic fringe who so dearly love the butcher’s apron. What exactly are they afraid of? One sure way to reduce the power of British unionists in Scotland is to take Scotland out of the British union. What will, through time, their already anachronistic little marches represent? Scotland is not the north of Ireland. Catholics have in the past, and still do face, bigotry but, on nothing like the scale Catholic people in the north of Ireland have faced. I don’t say that lightly, or this, but when did so many Scots of all persuasions and none lose sight of themselves as in independent people as capable as anyone of forging their own destiny? Why are so many people so scared of grasping something people just a few miles away have spent generations trying to achieve in the face of brutal repression by a country as ruthless as Britain? I only wish my fellow Scots finally show the same courage as those from the land of my Da’s birth and play their part in ending British rule over them.

    Reply
  31. Ian B

    Hey Phil, got to love the Daily Ranger, front page headline is Frankie Boyles spat with James Arthur of X Factor on Twitter, the headline is “James twitter row with Boyle”. Do you think Frankie lost his first name because he didn’t declare himself a Sevco fan in the weekends paper !

    Reply
  32. keith

    I for one will be voting for my country scotland to be independent,but please iam no lover of the snp ,iam a socialist and i want my country to be a seperate state,so please the argument that a vote for independence is a vote for salmond and co its not, its for a country of our own.

    keith.

    Reply
    1. Steven brennan

      Keith
      History shows most of the working Scottish people are socialist
      The SNP are by definition the tartan tories, however I have voted for them on almost avery occasion in the last 30 odd years.
      If Scotland gets independence the SNP will cease to exist and will have to declare thier true political bent allowing us to vite for the policies offered by the SCOTTISH parties.

      Reply
    2. Stu

      I’m a bit confused. By what measure are the SNP ‘The Tartan Tories’? I remember Labour desperately trying to smear them with that tag at the beginning of the decade – however it rung a bit hollow, given that the SNP are further to the left that Labour are these days.

      You don’t have to like the SNP – they are merely a means to an end. Besides, I fully expect Labour to take power in an independent Scotland. There’s too many people with too many chips on their shoulders for that not to happen. Labour are very good at the ‘There, there, it’s not your fault’ patronising politics that so appeals in Scotland, and in the absence of any credible alternative (assuming that the SNP aren’t reborn as some sort of social democrat party), it’s almost inevitable.

      Reply
    3. Jonjo Mc D

      The SNP are a means to an end. If/when Scotland becomes Independent I hope that it’s people work to make it a fair and inclusive nation, not like the north of Ireland in it’s worst condition nor like many, many nations and societies in the past and even today. An Independent Scotland will never be perfect as her people are not perfect but that does not mean she and we, including our misguided and erstwhile rivals (football, political and culture, if I may be permitted to include the latter) should not strive for that most desirable of states.

      Reply
    4. George Collins

      Stu, Labour is a right-wing party, so the SNP being left of them means not a lot.

      However, if the SNP wants independence then bring it on, as far as I’m concerned. You don’t have to like someone to agree with them.

      Reply
  33. corcaighbhoy

    The dark days sre slowly but surely getting brighter gone is there butchers apron gone is there football club gone is the power they once had to use to keep us down the loyalist zombie hords have seen a vision of the future a time when eqaulity and a level of peace not known in the north is coming and they dont want it they stand out like a sore thumb its the 21st century wake up as my hero said our day will come r i p bobby.

    Reply
  34. andy murray

    They numpties at the town hall do really look like zombie! Watch the way they walk up to the doors and look in. The woman with the flag is the scariest! Sevco +loyalists = zombies!

    Reply
  35. peter

    far be it for me to lecture on the “troubles” of n.ireland. however, i do recall bloody sunday was a civil rights march, and may be, cognizance of the discrimination that was prevalent at the time could have prevented many lost of lives.

    Reply
  36. Golden

    Carl le fong – so an independent Ireland is good but an independent Scotland would be bad? Because there wouldn’t be a Catholic majority?!! Don’t talk sh*te. Reasons for being independent or not shouldn’t come down to religion. Fud.

    Reply
  37. andy murray

    A mob like that garthering in any town centre is worrying, however what is more worrying is the fact that so many of them managed to escape from the asylem at the same time! Ps some good points carl, no point jumping out the frying pan into the fire!

    Reply
  38. Southside Tarrier

    I watched the Belfast city council meeting last night online and agree with most of your comments.
    I know how much the demographics in Belfast have changed, having being a regular visitor since the late sixties. I have many valued and close friends in that warm and friendly community of west Belfast.
    But I get the smell of triumphalism in your writing which is a concept we of a republican and socialist leaning would abhor.
    Let the democratic process continue. A process that was denied to the friends of my generation.

    Reply
    1. Joe

      It wasnt just the Irish national flag that was banned in the 6 counties Celtic scarves were also banned – I should know as a primary school kid i had 4 stolen by the RUC. I doubt that sort of thing would happen in China or North Korea. As for equality there is a long way to go before that breaks out. Irish flags are banned on St Patricks Day by Belfast City Council as Unionists find the flag “offensive”. British journalists have protected this state for too long by refusing to report the truth, similar to the way Rangers were protected by Scottish journalists. Hopefully they will both be history someday soon.

      Reply
  39. Ben mcginlay

    Spartacus and Carl. I personally feel organised religions have too much of a say in modern day living. I still feel that they have a purpose for folks who get comfort from them,That’s fine by me. We have plenty of politicians who affect how we live our lives without any other organisations. As regards to an independent Scotland, I’m not so sure. I think Scotland needs the Union. Independence would set us back hundreds of years. I kind of agree through independence we could go back to the old ways, just when we seem to be getting a bit of parity.

    Reply
  40. Blogiston

    Very annoying that these democrats* were rampaging with impunity through the city with a saltire. Celtic fans need to reclaim this flag – it aint a polarised symbol of unionism as they are attempting to make it.

    *where democrat stands for gerrymandering poll riggers.

    Reply
  41. Kerrygirl

    I agree with your comments phil we are all the people , the vast majority of scots are decent people as was proven by fan power when they refused to roll over and allow servco a return to the SPL.so Carl le fong I don’t agree with your scaremongering ,the very fact that rangers and the status quo in NI is being challenged through the democratic process is in it’s self hope for a brighter future,neither the lodge the masons or the wee frees have the pull they had 30 years ago that’s why servco fans are still in shock that they were actually allowed to go bust,as soon as lloyds took over the account the tap of endless over draughts was cut off with immediate affect without fear

    Reply
  42. tamtic

    On the day of the FTT verdict I posted on this site that HMRC must appeal and they would win. They obviously took notice.

    Reply
  43. Ben mcginlay

    These people are dinosaurs. They fear change and they fear equality for everyone. It always comes down to violence when they don’t get their way. It’s this attitude that is so prevalent with the Sevco, ahem Minority. They have had it their way for too long, and when fairness,equality and punishments for doing wrong occur they riot and cause mayhem….living in the past with a John Bull attitude is at the very least abhorrent..

    Reply
  44. John

    So as we comment on an article that celebrates the removal, partially, of a very divisive emblem and the bullying racism it represents some people on here are still banging on about the SNP and how an independent Scotland would be bad for Catholics. It is the British state’s divide and rule policy that has left many parts of the world scarred by sectarianism.It was under the umbrella of the British state that the sectarian attitudes encountered by many Catholics, particularly of Irish origin, grew and were encouraged to grow by the political class that underpins the UK’s biggest sectarian organization, the anglican monarchy.In my view, if you support the status quo in Scotland, you are a British Unionist, and if you are Catholic of Irish descent my god that is a label you surely don’t want. If you are happy to align yourself politically with the hordes of Sevconian Bigots who will be furiously campaigning for a Unionist victory in the upcoming referendum, the Orange Order and the rest of the Unionist lickspittles more interested in their own position than any kind of equality, fair enough. I for one will be casting my vote to end the British state, NOT support it.

    Reply
    1. P J Fox

      I’m Irish-North British, should I be ashamed of that? No, of course not. So save the crap about Irish-North Brit Catholics being ashamed. It stinks of immaturity, political and otherwise.
      Being born in North Britain and ethnically Irish I am an Irish British Republican.
      I believe in Republics for both islands Ireland and Britain.
      You, on the other hand believe in the partition of our island of Britain.
      The thing most about Republicans is that they are always looking forward and dont let the shackles of the past hold them back.
      I wont let any Nationalist Scots partitionist drivel convince me otherwise.
      As a Irish British Republican of the Catholic persuasion I’ll fight my corner along with my socialist comrades in Liverpool, Manchester et al. I have more in common with them than the Billy Boys of Glasgow, Edinburgh and Dundee.

      Reply
  45. frankcarson

    you have to laugh at the poor republicans complaining about mobs and violence , really , they have murdered and maimed more of their own “people” than anybody! the union flag may now only fly on designated days , but the tri-colour will never fly on any day your thoughts and opinions gents?

    Reply
  46. Frank O Donnelll

    Very moving and well constructed piece Phil,this has always been the problem they are not interested in progression they are more interested on oppression, they cannot get there head round the fact that the days of the bully boy tactic are gone the people who have been bullied have spent there time being educated are are now taking all the top jobs in every industry, the biggest difference now is that the new boys at the top are aware of how to treat people with respect and for that they gain respect.

    I would suggest that what is needed now is a major education project that woulds allow the idiots a chance to make a worthwhile contribution to society

    Reply
  47. Seamus O'Mochain

    Nobody should fear equality, only those who have something to lose, For too long the Northern state has been a cold house for Nationalists. Kudos to Sinn Fein for stripping back much of the Unionist supremacist trappings in the name of equality. Plenty done, plenty more to do. 26 + 6 = 1.

    Reply
  48. Dal

    The protesting hordes in Belfast are very much like their brethren at Dark Ibrox. Hate filled, lacking imagination and unable to adapt in tbe 21 century.
    How pitiful to be consumed by an imperialist flag. All the while there’s serious deprivation and unemployment in eyesores like Shankhill.

    Reply
  49. Peter

    We all know the answer to this, but why was St Matthew’s Church attacked? What justifiable reason could possibly be given?

    Reply
  50. miki67

    To me this is one of the more worrying aspects of this story, as reported in The Guardian:
    “It is understood a core section of the loyalist demonstration opposed to any change on the flag-flying policy is a new hardline group comprising former members of the British Army from Northern Ireland.”

    Reply
  51. Carl Le Fong

    I agree wholeheartedly, the problem is not the Union Jack either in Northern Ireland, or, in the west of Scotland; rather it is, as you say, the hard-core loyalist underclass, who wrap themselves in it, simply because they have nothing else to hang on to and who let bigotry and hatred rule their lives.

    Perhaps after the ‘carnage’ in Belfast, the news that the Ibrox cheats are to be challenged again by HMRC in the UTT, may bring unrest to the streets of the west of Scotland – let’s hope not.

    Finally I say to my fellow Scots within our 17% minority in Scotland – do not let these Union Jack lovers drive you into the arms of the SNP – Independence will do us no good – we will be left to the whims the of the Wee Frees, Church of Scotland, the Orange Order and the Masonic Lodge, who will use their vast influence in a separate Scotland, to drive home their message, which has never changed over the years, that this is their Protestant country – Stay with the UK, where we have a much larger Catholic population, strong ties with the Anglican communion and good friends in government, regardless of which party is in power.

    Reply
    1. Neil

      Just one thing Carl and I agree with your comments, its not the Union Jack, its actually the union flag…I am sure you knew this anyway.
      KTF

      Reply
    2. Spartacus MacDonald

      Carl le Fong: What country do you live? I’ve lived in East Central Scotland my whole life- more than half a century- and do not see a country dominated by the collection of Protestant churches and organisations that you’ve dredged up from your “catholic” perspective. The Catholic church is a block to the social, economic and political progress of Scotland. Independence is not synonymous with independence. There are groups trying to build a radical Scotland based on a citizen’s democracy in a modern day republic. The last thing we need is a moribund arguments based on medieval obscurantism. It’s time to think for yourself and not what your priest tells you to think.
      Break the union! Vote for an independent Scotland!

      Reply
    3. Peter g

      Carl I do not have to be a SNP supporter to believe that independence will bring a better future for my country.i will decide myself which way I should vote without worrying about which way the rest of the catholic population are voting.i certainly will not be worrying myself over the influence the orange order the wee frees or the Masonic lodge will have on the future of our country should we vote for independence.i will be voting for an independent Scotland which I hope will be able to move forward without bothering myself too much what any of these dwindling outdated institutions say !!

      Reply
    4. George Collins

      Neil, I think you’ve been watching Dr Who; that’s what I tell people when they say “Jack”.

      Spartacus, the Catholic Church, like most Churches, is a block to freedom; the issue, though, is whether we are called(and call ourselves) Catholic because it’s really to do with Catholicism, or because it’s easier than saying Irish-Scottish.

      For me it’s an Irish thing.

      Not everyone will see it that way, but Hey-Ho! that’s life.

      Peter, I too believe in an independent Scotland, but don’t support the SNP. It would be better to have a Scotland where we are free to make our own mistakes, instead of constantly, and more often than not legitimately, blaming the English.

      My fear is the kind of country Scotland would become; Murdoch doesn’t back nice guys.

      If we were truly to become a socialist nation with oil-wealth, it would be only a matter of time before elections were rigged. And if that didn’t work, colour revolutions would take place; failing that, the inevitable invasion would happen.

      Mossadegh, Arbenz, Lumumba, Sukarno, Allende, Gaddafi (or anyone else not in step with the corporate-financier line): it all happens sooner or later.

      Reply
  52. bfb

    might be a bad heading for the Free Staters but it is heartening to hear this about the flag. The anti democratic forces are yesterday’s men. Yeats was wrong when he wrote “Parnell” the stone breaking days are over for many among those of us who are descended from the economic refugees who went and hewed coal in the Scotland of the early 20th Century.

    BFB

    Reply
  53. beanzie

    The protestant loyalist of the 6 countys remind me of the North Korean…..There’ll be Unicorns sighted up the Shankill soon..

    Reply
  54. keighley bhoy

    Top drawer Phil, once again her majestys loyal blue subjects bring nothing but fear and carnage to Belfast, there an embarrassment just like there Scottish cousins, who cant except that equality is a given right in civilized society, bringing there flag down is a small step,banning their sectarian bigoted marches is what i truly believe a forward thinking N. IRELAND needs to do next, i live in hope, hail hail, GOD BLESS IE CELTIC+

    Reply

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