Why the numbers no longer add up for The People

Ninety years ago the Northern Ireland statelet was established on the basis of a sectarian headcount.

Quite simply the boundaries of the new “country” were established on the basis on where Catholics and Protestant lived in the province of Ulster.

The nine county province was partitioned with six remaining in the United Kingdom and three going into the newly formed Irish Free State.

In the counties of Antrim, Armagh, Derry, Down, Tyrone there were Protestant majorities.

The exception was county Fermanagh which was incorporated into the new British Volkstaat despite having a nationalist majority from the start.

A five county Northern Ireland was not considered viable.

A Nine county Northern Ireland, i.e. a place that really would have been “Ulster” simply had too many Catholics.

The Six Counties in 1922 had two Protestants for every one Catholic.

Discrimination and a harsh policing regime were designed to keep it that way.

Repression of the fenians was written into the DNA of the new statelet.

It was Northern Ireland’s birth defect.

Over the last few decades the two to one majority that underpinned where the border was drawn has been slowly changing.

The numbers have been altering at a glacial pace, but glaciers are unstoppable.

The most recent census figures from Northern Ireland should come as no surprise to anyone who has been studying these demographic trends.

Although the hard numbers are now there to be crunched there have been discernible signs for some time.

School numbers, for example, are a good indicator.

Anyone involved in education provision, school building and the like will tell you that the Catholic sector is growing exponentially.

Moreover the age profile of those who would define as Protestants has been getting greyer.

Therefore it came as no shock to me to see the 5% drop in people who would identify their background as being some variant of the reformed faith.

Quite simply that demographic is significantly older in age profile that the Catholic community.

The Orange state was created on the basis that the catholic community would be permanently in the minority.

Within the next couple of decades that paradigm may no longer reflect the facts on the ground.

Northern Ireland in 2020 may have the same demographic profile that the province of Ulster would have had in 1922.

This does not mean that the new Northern Irish will automatically wish to vote in a Border plebiscite for a United Ireland.

As I have written here before Siobhán with her masters degree and good public service job may well decide that her future and crucially  her children’s future is best protected within the UK.

However, what it certainly DOES mean is that the old coat trailing days in Sammy’s Ulstur are over.

That is what the loyalist underclass are currently on the rampage about.

Even they know that their days of imagined supremacism are over.

When you examine the material reality of these communities their sense of themselves appears baffling to an outsider like me.

Places like the Fountain in Derry are pitiable ghettoes reeking of educational failure and profound social problems.

Similar housing estates can be found in other parts of the United Kingdom and here in the Republic.

What IS different though is the sub-culture of supremacism that The People cling to like a comfort blanket.

To witness them strutting that they are sentinels of some higher civilisation is simultaneously risible and tragic in equal measure.

The louder they bang the Lambeg they more hollow their claims to have an elevated status over their Catholic neighbours sound.

In the meantime to assert their Uber Britishness  as only they know how.

On Monday night they tried to incinerate one of the Queen’s police officers.

She was alone in a car outside the office of Naomi Long MP.

15 men attacked the car and petrol bombed the vehicle.

The PSNI are treating it as attempted murder of their female colleague.

Clearly these heroes need to have manners put on them without further delay.

What has occurred in Belfast and Carrickfergus over the last week is not the behaviour of a confident culture.

The loyalist mob lashes out because they instinctively know that tomorrow does not belong exclusively to them.

What is being offered to them instead is to be a part of this island’s future, but not one based on privilege.

They are not The People; they are just people, like the rest of us.

Subsequently, they cannot lord it over their Catholic neighbours anymore.

What stretches out before them is equality and that prospect haunts them like a spectre.

We should pity them.

59 thoughts on “Why the numbers no longer add up for The People

  1. Mick

    Cheers Mac, I appreciate your acceptance of my apology. All the best to you and yours over the festive holiday. Hail, hail.

    Reply
  2. Mick

    Mac Thomas and Alanboy,
    I have no defense here. That was an ill-judged post and an unwarranted comment on your exchange. Only humble contrition and an unconditional apology from me to you both.

    Reply
  3. Mick

    Alanboy and Mac Thomas, with all due respect to your love-in, have you no insight into the animosity that surrounds you both?
    The hatred pointed in my direction growing up in a Protestant area was a blight on me and meant that I more often than not had to fight my way home from an early age.
    I’m really glad that you guy’s enjoy each others posts. Your experience and mine are though entirely different.
    Before you rear up at me though, I’d like to point out that I’ve long since left and now have kids that are brought up with no religion but they do have a love of Celtic.

    Reply
  4. Mac Tomas

    Alanboy
    Rugby doesn’t do much for me either, I’m a football man myself. It was just an observation that tribalism does not seem so ingrained in the middles classes.
    As you pointed out identity (national Identity) is a complex ‘thingy’, & more often than not, toxic when religion is a central ingredient. However collective identity is part of the human condition & in understanding that, the flag issue becomes a little less bizarre. The collective identify themselves through their symbols. Of course people from NI experience this to a degree of such intensity those outside the province would find difficult to cope with.
    As a very young Catholic from Glasgow’s Irish Diaspora the NI conflict had an effect on me & on many others. I aligned myself with the Republican movement, but soon became weary of images of people lying in bits & pictures of terrified ashen faces after the latest car bomb. The Loyalist “Trick or Treat” shootings & the Republicans Remembrance day bomb were particular low points, & linger in the memory.
    What there is now “must” be embraced by everybody. The principle of agreeing to disagree is now becoming part of the fabric of the 6 counties.
    Here in Scotland I’ll be voting for Independence in 2014, & we’re becoming acutely aware that minds across the water will be noting the outcome. It has the potential to become a fascinating situation rather than a morbid one.
    Regards Alanboy, or as we say here in Jockland, Slange !!
    Always good to engage with political objectivity. I will be looking out for your future posts.

    Reply
  5. Mac Tomas

    Alanboy
    I also feel I have to emphasize as regards The Conty & Real IRA !
    Pack it in, disband & go home. No more of that please !

    Reply
  6. Mac Tomas

    Alanboy
    I absolutely concur with that assertion, that the logjam can only be broken when the identity ‘channeling’ ends. Then of course objectivity becomes the norm rather than unquestioning tribalism.
    As regards soft Irish Nationalism in middle class Ulster protestants, I have personal experience of encounters with such people at social gatherings in London, and not solely your rugby playing types either. I’m also assured by a close friend of mine an architect originally from the Falls Rd that he also encounters such sentiments in dealing with middle class NI protestants, away from the constricting environment that is still often experienced in the province. Don’t get me wrong they were not exactly waving Tricolours, merely voicing that a UI was a concept that did not greatly concern them & should not be ruled out. It’s anecdotal & not a demographic study but it is in a modest way a sign of the times.
    I see no reason why the only way out of the bitter feuding can only be within an NI not integrated into a UI. I see no reason why a British identity cannot be maintained by those who wish to preserve it & why it could not be protected by a constitutional act of a new Irish state. That to me seems eminently more logical than preserving a rump of territory that is now beyond the purpose for which it was cobbled together
    *The rugby example is an interesting situation. Middle class protestant boys playing in an All Ireland team supported by prominent Unionist politicians. Go Figure !

    Reply
    1. alanboy

      mac thomas enjoyed your last post, very well put and free from the usual tribal division. one critism though if you can call it that is that what is discussed in bars and social gatherings can be different from reality although i agree these discussions need to be given a proper platform and would in my opinion encourage people to clearly define themselves not on the old secterian head count but on a national basis as i personally feel that you cannot identify yourself on a national basis simply on the basis of your religious identity. im not going to try and work out the rugby scenario you described as i hate rugby and dont believe that a sport built on the foundation of brute force and ignorance deserves a metion!!! thats a wee joke mac thomas by the way. but in all seriousness your thoughts sre very relevant and deserve carefull pondering and consideration. i have really enjoyed engaging with you.

      Reply
  7. Mick

    …and that Robert was a return to nuclear free West Mains. We never have and never will accept a neither confirm nor deny policy.

    Reply
  8. Mick

    Robert, I see now where you are coming from. “Return to Rome” was not meant as an insult. On the other hand “plastic Catholic” is meant to be just that, I think? We are all anonymous on these forums and I shrink from insulting any poster. Your belief in Rome is yours and I respect that but please do not try to belittle those who were brought up in the faith but chose to reject the teachings of the church. My faith, on a personal level, was broken by a Spanish nun who stated that life was better under Franco. For me the Catholic Church and socially responsible, progressive ideals are mutually exclusive. Sorry, Rome, no thanks. Celtic, yes please. My team, my support and my people. All inclusive all of the time and if a man loves another man or a woman loves another woman, I say nothing against that but Rome does. I am not gay but I take issue with people who rail against love however it is expressed.

    Reply
    1. Mac Tomas

      Mick
      “I take issue with people who rail against love however it is expressed”
      Your words Mick with which I can’t disagree, but your having a pop at me cos I exchanged a few friendly words with a guy after we commented on each others posts.
      Whats that about ?

      Reply
  9. Barney

    Should be interesting when the final defeat at a political level happens.
    A NI with a non unionist majority in a state that was set up to have a non catholic majority forever and a day.
    Now that would truly funny.
    “We are the people”
    Love it.

    Reply
  10. Mac Tomas

    Aianboy
    I accept your assertion that territory identifiable as a state or an ethnic or national collective morphs and shape shifts according to events & the ebb & flow of time. This can be applied to the borderlands of Scotland & England where parts of Cumbria, & Northumbria have changed hands. The point I was making that at some point in the interests of progress a line “must” be drawn as regards ownership of territory or we could end up with another Palestine where one group asserts valid ownership through Biblical revelation, even though they were expelled ‘left’or lost control thousands of years ago.
    I’m still not sure that your point is objectively made as your snide reference to “wee Siobhan” seems like an attempt to mock the growing confidence of Nationalist & Republican Irish, whether they consider themselves peculiarly “Northern Irish” or not.
    As you seem fascinated by changing demographics how about this one. In some sectors of The Protestant middles classes of the 6 counties there was & is less of a hostility towards the concept of UI. This liberal sector of course is ripe for targeting by the SDLP & let’s not rule out the reconstructed Sinn Fein. For every Catholic soft Unionist, There’s…….

    Reply
    1. alanboy

      mac thomas first of all the reference to wee siobhon was not meant to be snidey as you say but as a contrast to republicans who still continue to murder bomb maim and generally terrorise, in contrast wee siobhan is confident of her identity. you claim middle class unionists are now favorable or are becomming favourable to an ui. i totally disagree with that assertion as a native of northern ireland and one who converses on a daily basis with all classes of society ihave yet to hear one of the protestant community (and i hate to use that designation as it contributes to the seperateness which divides this country) speak in any terms of their desire to see an united ireland. the appetite is not there. i think that the way out of this log jam is for all citizens creed or colour will be able to recognise and identify with northern ireland and the people of this land come under that banner were natinal identity is put before religious preference. here we are identified from birth as protestant/unionist catholic/nationalist. that has to change, that contributes to the seperateness and polarisation of the people. in northern ireland it is not race that divides us but simply religion.

      Reply
  11. paulmac

    ‘Descrimination and a harsh policing policy were designed to keep it that way’

    It sure did…step forward the B specials…the self appointed local police force whose primary MO was driving into an area mob handed in the early hours…emptying a house of all male occupants to gang beat them with a threat of death if they didn’t leave the area before their next visit..

    Reply
  12. Robert

    @Mick…

    you have COMPLETELY misunderstood my post.

    I am ABSOLUTELY NOT of Orange or Protestant persuasion.

    My gripe with Phil, the plastic Catholic, is that he has used the census statistics & distorted his usual Catholic bashing to “rub noses”.

    the last time I checked it wasn’t only eskimos who have shnibs…

    God bless The Pope

    Reply
  13. Mick

    Robert, “rub noses on it”? Is that an eskimo thing? Not sure that a bowler and a sash will protect against the cold. Please suggest it to the happy wanderers though, I’m fairly sure that you’ll all be welcome in a purely white landscape. I bet the Lambeg would resonate loudly in the silence.
    Seriously, please go, and take all your people with you.
    Many thanks from decent people everywhere.

    Reply
  14. Mick

    Polemicism is quite tiresome. Comrade Phil has quite clearly stated that dissident republicanism has nothing to offer. Time for the Jaffa to acknowledge the same? I’m sure there is square missing people marching up and down in the absence of a good book to read.
    I grew up in the goldfish bowl. Missed a bus as a youth because of a Jaffa wander, as an adult missed a dentist appointment stuck behind the people.
    It’s 2012, bolt ya rockets, normal people have lives to live.

    Reply
  15. Robert

    interesting article on several accounts but none so striking as your noted excitement at the shift of demographics towards Mother Church.

    shame on you again Phil as you advantageously attempt to “rub noses on it” whilst stating you want nothing to do with the Church.

    Return to Rome.

    Reply
  16. Mac Tomas

    Alanboy
    Your knowledge of Elizabethan England’s appropriation of Irish territory & its rearranging the county furniture in Ulster as it was then known is admirable. However how does this have any baring on the 20th century partitioning & gerrymandering of what was the commonly accepted nine counties of Ulster. This is yet more of the endless argumentative wriggling to shore up the invalid British claim on the current six counties. This claim is now noticeably fraying at the edges and no amount of faux intellectual posturing will arrest the loyalists decaying domination of NI.

    Reply
    1. alanboy

      mac thomas you miss the point of my argument i fear, what i was trying to convey was that phill by stating the elizabethan designation of ulster was actually portraying to the public that this was the definite border of ulster. this had never been the case with the ancient peoples of ireland and the delination with the gaelic conquests the border of ulster became smaller incorporating down antrim and parts of tir owen (tyrone)and armagh were the seat of emain macha the capital was. the border of ulster has changed over many centuries and the nine counties you speak of as the recognised territory of ulster was an anglican make up. as for your other comments with the new census data more and more citizens of northern ireland are becomming very comfortable with their identity as northern irish something for milleniums now has been the case with the history of the irish peoples. ulster has and was always seperate in its differing border lands linguistically (hence the different form of gaelic found in ulster from the other regions of ireland) culturally and ethnically from the rest of ireland. i feel this is a good thing for this part of ireland for all its citizens to be comfortable with being a part of northern ireland whatever may be your colour or creed. maybe just maybe that will be thge means of true reconcillation when all creeds are comfortable with their northern irishness.

      Reply
  17. Dal

    Andy
    Are you actually serious? You describe Eire as a ‘reactionary society’ Civilisation defines Britain as a war criminal entity. That said, it’s not important if a united Ireland comes to fruition. It only matters that one part of the community recieve inclusivity.
    It may rile you that Nationalists have attained that right. Try coming to terms with it. Join the world.

    Reply
    1. Andy

      Dal – I’m all in favour of equal rights in Northern Ireland (and indeed everywhere else) – It would be nice if the Republic displayed the same attitude.

      If you think the links below are not evidence of a country that is both reactionary and corrupt then we are clearly using different dictionaries.

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/14/ireland-woman-dies-after-abortion-refusal

      http://transparency.ie/news_events/perceptions-corruption-ireland

      Reply
  18. BillyTim

    Phil,

    My (Protestant) atheist, Scottish wife said this morning – much to my surpise (the language, not the sentiments)- that the rioting mob “needed their union flags rammed up their arses”. Such disrespect for both the national symbol (not to mention bigotted arses)is far from unique among thinking folk of both traditions. Divide and rule is over. The poor benighted planters are the last to see their plight, and how they have been used by the British ruling class, both in imperial times to suplant the native population, and in later industrial times in the class war against organised labour. Now they are of no further use (Capital is global, and newer cheaper ‘coolies’ have been found further afield) they are being discarded and dumped by their ‘betters’. England is slowly disengaging from its troublesome ‘province’ and we here in Scotland can accelerate the process by voting for independence (to whom will Sammy be ‘loyal’ when ‘Britain’ is no more). What good (Catholic) atheists like myself (and yourself) need to do is hasten the break-up of the perfidious British state (one that can have its court-officers murdered by servants of the state for performing their legal duty, whilst setting up ‘enquiries’ pre-determined to exonerate the politicians who must have known what was going on, if indeed they did not order it). A republican, socialist Scotland could be a major contributor to a pan-Celtic alliance of socialist republican states in these Islands. And Albion can bugger off!

    Reply
    1. Spartacus MacDonald

      Break the union! Vote for an independent Scotland. Dump the crown and build a modern citizen’s democracy in Scotland.

      Reply
  19. droid

    I believe that what really drives this behaviour is the deep well of guilt from almost a century of misuse of power and privilege and a resultant unconscious belief that what they have done shall be done unto them. One off the downfalls of an old testament Lindsey.

    Reply
  20. Andy

    “The census figures indicate that while there is a continuing decline in the Protestant population, chiefly because of mortality, that this does not necessarily mean the prospect of a united Ireland is any closer.

    This is because the census also revealed that only one in four of the overall Northern Ireland population sees themselves as exclusively Irish. This contrasts with 40 per cent who view themselves as solely British and 21 per cent who see themselves as Northern Irish only. This is the first time this question of identity was asked in the Northern census.

    Almost half (48 per cent) of people usually resident in Northern Ireland included British as a national identity while 29 per cent included Northern Irish and 28 per cent included Irish as identity. Here there would have been some overlapping identities.”

    So, only 28% identifying as Irish despite 45% coming from Roman Catholic backgrounds. Could it be that a large number of people fail to be attracted by broken economy and a corrupt reactionary society ?

    Reply
    1. steviegee

      as i have posted myself previously , there is no appetite for a united ireland both north and south of the border , it may be hard but some people must come to terms with the concept that they will never see a united ireland , could eire cope economically ? could its infrastructure cope ? eires economy is on its knees the last thing it needs is problems in ulster as i have said British goverments have struggled with much more resources .

      Reply
  21. alanboy

    phill you sound very bitter about my fantasies of an orange state. at what point did i say that this was what my mindset was on the subject? i was merely correcting your mistake in designating ulster as the nine counties which would include monaghan cavan and donegall, as the original ulster borderlands. this was and is an anglican designation and designed by the elizabethan minds of their day and was a plantation designation at this period and never was a uliad / ulster designation by the ancient peoples. eventually as i hope you would know que your reference to down and antrim uliad border was the counties of down and antrim which incorparated the ancient kingdoms of dalriada and the dalaradia. down (the ancient uliad) was populated by the vollunti at this period and they are acredited with the danes cast which they drew up as their border. as i asked you to do a study of the black pigs dyke which corresponds to the tain bo period and setanta or cuchulain you will maybe get a feel were the border of ancient times began and ended. as for your comments about an orange state well they seem quite at odds with the question about the underclass of the rising republican underclass or klan or fascists. to call for them to disarm is being very moderate in your condemnation when this particular underclass have been busy murdering people on the streets of northern ireland. to say they are being influenced by spooks is rather silly in my opinion but unsurprising given that the provisionals themselves were very much influenced at at very senior level by the said spooks. look forward to your blog on the rise of the underclass of republican dissidents and how they are being allowed to prosper in former provisional strongholds. it seems that there are a lot of disaffected provisionals joining the ranks of the dissidents.

    Reply
  22. jim larkin

    after a 3rd report into the Pat Finucane murder, the Finucane family have said that it is yet another whitewash.

    calls for a public enqiery to find out the TRUTH, have been denied to the family.

    will we ever find out the truth about the state collusion in the murder of a peaceful law abiding citizen who reused to be intimidated and continued to represent people from a community which were continually targeted by the state.

    Reply
  23. alanboy

    kevin the high kings during the gaelic period is something on a myth, at that time and check the facts there were 150 kings all in ireland claiming the same thing. in reality the kings were more like tribal (tuath) leaders and the ancient texts say nothing of the u’neill being anyway influential outside of their own sphere. mael mura tried to influence the u’neill sphere but many historians and that good ones accept that he was more than a bit partizan. brian boru certainly was not high king of ireland although he may have styled his self as so the reality was very different.

    Reply
    1. Kevin

      I’m not here to protect the reputation of Brian Boru, merely to point out that his contemporaries recognized a place called Ulster. I can also point out that this isn’t protohistory as writing was in existence at this time.

      Whilst this may not stop Brian’s hagiography containing flattering propaganda, this, frankly is not what we are talking about.

      I notice above that it is you who wishes to speculate on matters of myth and legend. You are saying that some ditches weren’t put there to deter cattle rustlers but rather for the benefit of a mythical figure who you have placed within a very specific time frame. And this proves?

      Are you saying that Ulster does or does not have a history? If you’re saying that at the end of the day it’s just a part of Ireland, I think that there’s very few people that would disagree.

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    2. alanboy

      kevin i think you are away off the subject. ulster as you stated has always existed but certainly not under the nine counties phill described in this blog of his. i was merely pointing out the fact that the ulster he was describing was of an anglican making something the blog author would not support i would presume. maybe you will take the time to actually read my posts instead of parts which as your words describe are mythical and legend, and yet you can state as a fact that brian boru conquered the whole of ulster when this was not the whole truth and to say that he reduced the territory of the uliad /argialla would be more accurate. as i said to you brian boru may have styled himself the high king of ireland but as subsequent events turned out he was never this in reality and had to use foreign aid to try and maintain his power. check history kevin before you say the first thing that comes into your head and then accuse others of relying on myth and legends. as i said i know there has always been an ulster but not the one which phill used as his designation which and i will emphasise again was an elizabethan designation and was never the ulster/uliad of the ancient peoples of this nation

      Reply
    3. Kevin

      That’s just it Allanbhoy… What is the subject? The Norman Quasi-conquest started the process of creating the counties in the first place. So what, do you wan’t to redraw the border and/ or re-establish the old shires?

      There’s also been numerous changes in Local Government organisation all over the Island of Britain during and after these centuries, but provinces and countries are still provinces and countries, regardless.

      So, you know, I’m still not sure what you want Phil to apologize for.

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    4. alanboy

      kevin again you are way off in your remarks. the norman conquest certainly never was part of the process to establish the ulster counties or even the counties in ireland. these were long before the norman conquest of the 13th century. the ulster border has changed many times in the last 2 millenia and with the gaelic conquest of ireland was vastly reduced to the terrority of down antrim armagh and parts of tyrone. my point is that ulster has always been seperate from the rest of ireland linguistically (henece the different gaelic spoken in ulster) culturally and ethnically. now with the new census showing that more and more people of this part of ireland are comfortable with the identity of northern irish which the men of ulster in centuries gone by always recognised themselves as hopefully in the comming generations this feeling of identity grows which may be the answer to the endless cycle of who and what we are, that the peoples of this part of ireland would have the confidence no matter creed or colour to identify themselves as northern irish.

      Reply
  24. steviegee

    i wonder when the big bad proddys are due a inquiry into the shankill bombing ,bloody friday , warrenpoint, omagh, irish state collusion ? jeezuz i could be here all day

    Reply
    1. Brencelt

      Steeeeevie gee
      The british government have admitted (eventually) that their forces (both covert and overt) were directly involved in the murder of Pat Finucane and the destruction of evidence. Pat’s crime was that he dared challenge, and beat, the british authorities in court. You mention “Irish state collusion”, what evidence have you got? “Jeezuz I could be here all day”(your words) is more an indication of your lack of speed of uptake than it is of anything substantial you could say.
      “Never get involved in an argument with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience”, this phrase was obviously written with you Steffi geeee in mind!
      Brencelt

      Reply
    2. steviegee

      the problem with people like your good self is that they see one side of an debate , again ,why no inquiries into republican mass murder ? and i could be here all day listing the mass murders committed by republicans but no debate because protestants do not count and if you do not think there was collusion between those south of the border you are the idiot (smithwick tribunal) please take off your blinkers jeeezuz.

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    3. Neil

      Stevie gee,

      See the part that Phil mentions ” Glacial pace”, refer that to what I said some days ago about change takes place over year and is not noticed daily.

      WATCH THIS SPACE

      Reply
    4. Brencelt

      The difference is that Pat Finucane was murdered by agents of the british crown, hence call for (which incidentally was not granted) a full public inquiry.
      Try and keep up Steffi

      Reply
    5. MacTomas

      Stevigee
      There is little or no need for inquiry into Republican bombing & killing as the culprits almost always ended up in an H Block, or the active group claimed the event as their own. Your gratuitous whataboutery is bordering on the adolecsant. Please note this is not a defence of every violent Republican engagement.
      Furthermore the infrastructure of Ireland does not consist of dirt tracks & bogland. It’s a modern developed society which would cope with a united Ireland with efficiency should both existing states desire it. Your clutching at rather thin straws here.

      Reply
  25. keddaw

    Celebrating a shift from belief in one parochial version of a magic friend and his representatives on earth to another does not seem something to celebrate. The sooner the people of Ireland realise their interests are best served by working together regardless of which brand of madness they affiliate with the sooner the whole population will benefit and perhaps move out of the financial mire afflicting those in both the north and the south.

    Reply
  26. Ben mcginlay

    Anywhere in the world where everyone is on an even par must be a better way to live for all. It is always harder for the groups or factions who, in the past had the lions share of government and council decisions. It really is time for change, but the so called losers in this new era will do their utmost to turn it into something else, by rioting and marching and claiming injustice. Everyone has a right to feel they belong, integrating into society and be able to apply for jobs etc without making apologies for the school they went to. Which by the way, still goes on in Glasgow…but that’s just banter, apparently…..

    Reply
  27. alanboy

    facts are again something which you tend not to know phil. first of all the ulster of nine counties you proclaim was an elizabethan anglican designation and never was or never regognised by the ancient people of ireland. i suggest you do a study on the black pigs dyke and the danes cast to establish the original uliad or ulster and can assure you it never incorporated the nine county elizabethan anglican region that was established at this time. in fact the nine county ulster you so speak of was a plantation designation. to day in northern ireland two more politicians are threatned with their lives by dissident republican murderers, are these people reacting to the will of the people? what are they striking out at phil? are they an underclass who have already murdered very recently and will continue to do so. are they confident along with wee siobhan in their identity and culture? like to hear your comments and condemnation on this rather sinister and growing underclass.

    Reply
    1. Phil Mac Giolla BhainPhil Mac Giolla Bhain Post author

      Republican Dissidents have nothing to offer the people of this island.
      They should desist,disarm and disband.
      On the day when the British Prime Minister apologises to the Finucane family for state collusion I believe that these republican micro groups are also being heavily influenced by British spooks.
      You may fantasise about a Volkstaat in Antrim and Down where the taigs know their place again, but that boat has sailed.
      Re-partition isn’t going to happen and the old Orange state is a thing of the past.

      Reply
    2. Kevin

      So when Brian Boru conquered Ulster to become high king of All Ireland, they were talking about some other place, then?

      Reply
  28. keighley bhoy

    ANOTHER TOP READ PHIL, IS IT NOT TIME THAT THE ULSTER KLAN AND THEIR COUSINS DOWN GOVAN WAY GOT FREE EYE TESTS AT SPECSAVERS, THERE THAT BLIND TAE THE CHANGES HAPPENING IN BIGOTED ULSTER AND SECTARIAN SCOTLAND, THE BELLS OF CHANGE A RINGING LOUD AND PROUD, LOUDER THAN ANY ORANGE DRUM.THE CATHOLIC SPRING IS GATHERING PACE, EQUALITY IS NO LONGER A FICTIONAL WORD, ITS A GIVEN RIGHT THAT WE ALL DESERVE AND NO LONGER SHALL WE BE 2ND CLASS CITIZENS IN 3RD WORLD COUNTRIES… OUR TIME IS MOST DEFINITELY APPROACHING, HAIL HAIL, GOD BLESS IE CELTIC+

    Reply
  29. Stu

    Phil,

    It’s an interesting piece, but I think you really need to make a distinction here. The numbers who are out protesting about it (assuming that ‘protesting’ encompasses attempted murder and mindless vandalism) are pitiful. I think most in Northern Ireland, whether Catholic or Protestant, have moved on and have no wish to return to the state of 30/40 years ago. In fact, the actions of the mob have made that more likely. If they’d actually conducted a normal, public demonstration, then it’s probable that a fair chunk of the traditional loyalist demographic would have, at the very least, had a degree of sympathy and may have joined them. The second they started chucking petrol bombs, they ensured that would never happen.

    I remember reading ‘Stupid White Men’, and whilst Michael Moore is without doubt a populist who undermines his own credibility with outlandish stunts and such like, he did have a point in one part he wrote. He was talking about being in a car with Gerry Adams, and they were watching a Unionist march go by, and (I’m paraphrasing) Gerry Adams said that what they didn’t realise was that this was as good as it gets for them. It was inevitable that Unionism would lose it’s grip on Northern Ireland due to simple demographics, and that they were better negotiating at that point in time from a position of strength than to continue to stall, and end up having things enforced upon them without any say. Michael Moore’s point was that you know the game is up when even your so called enemies look on you with a degree of sympathy.

    Reply
    1. Kevin

      These people who stomp around wrapping themselves in the Union Jack and lamenting “Noooo Sarrendurr” do have and will continue to have a ‘say’. What they can’t do is insist or demand, when democracy has decided otherwise.

      Reply
    2. Stu

      Kev,

      Sorry. You’re right. It was badly phrased. I meant that if they continued to stall, then that position of strength would disappear.

      Reply
  30. Davybhoy

    Hi Phil,
    Good read again. There must be much wailing and gnashing of teeth amongst the Klan. I hear they are organising a demo in George Square on Saturday.
    What are they going to do if Scotland gets independance??

    Just heard the security forces are guilty of being involved in the death of Pat Finucane!

    Reply
  31. David M

    Cracking piece Phil.
    If they react like they have recently done because the butchers apron is removed from a building then we are in for some horrific times when political positions start slipping away.
    Can I Lu hope that decent people stay safe.

    Reply
  32. Andybhoy

    For around 20 years I have told pro unionists and the peepel that always thought that ulster is British and will always be,,one,,northern Ireland is part of the uk and NOT Britain as it’s Scotland England and Wales that make up Britain,it’s a historical fact,,and if you’re not British what are you?? You are irish,,call it northern Irish if it makes you fell better about it but Irish non the less.
    2.I have always told them that when they say ulster is Protestant,,I simply told them for now you maybe but in 10,20 or maybe even 30 years Catholics will simply out breed you and there is nothing to stop the inevitable,,unless you joined the IVF instead of the UVF.
    3.With all the things you could protest about,,housing,jobs,banks,welfare cuts,pensions,education in loyalist areas is an utter disgrace considering the advantages they had/have over the catholic schools with grants etc,,I know a teacher in Derry who told me catholic schools are not even aware or told about some grants,,all the social problems and like most countries getting shafted because of the greed of banks,,and you protest about not being allowed to march in catholic areas and a fucking fleg.
    One day when there will be a united Ireland and it’s all over for your fleg,you will be incorporated into an island of Ireland and will have no choice but to get on with it and try and live and work with your neighbours,,now would be a good time to start getting used to it,,it’s done. TAL

    Reply
  33. James

    Another interesting piece. I suspect that while the economy in the Republic continues to drag along the bottom, there will be an awful lot of soft unionism among the Catholic population in the six counties, and probably rightly so. If things ever pick up again, it might eventually be a different story.

    Reply
  34. Kieran Shellon

    Chorus:
    The winds are singing freedom, they sing it everywhere
    They sing it on the mountainside and in the city square
    They sing of a new day dawning when our people shall be free
    Come and join the song of freedom, let it ring from sea to sea

    In the battle streets of Belfast you can hear the people cry
    For justice long denied them, and their cry will fill the sky
    But the winds of change are blowing, bringing hope from dark despair
    A new day is dawning, you can feel it in the air

    Too long our people suffered in misery and in tears
    And foreign rulers used our land for about eight hundred years
    It’s a long road, has no turning, and I know that soon will be
    A day of justice dawning when our people shall be free

    There’s a time laid out for laughing and there’s a time laid out to weep
    There’s a time laid out for sowing and a time laid out to reap
    There’s a time to love your brother, there’s a time for hate to cease
    If you sow the seeds of justice then you’ll reap the fruits of peace

    Reply

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